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 Post subject: Should Paranormal groups be critical of one another?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:43 pm 
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The Ferryman
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I recently posted link to some videos on the NGI Facebook group page that showed another North East group presenting 'evidence' that I personally found a bit suspect.

Most of the responses (so far) have tended to agree with my observations. My question is whether you think it's something that groups should be doing to each other?

There is so much hostility, back biting and inflated egos in this game already, then it could be argued that this kind of thing would only pour even more fuel on the fire and make matters even worse.

On the flip side, if more people showed this ridiculous behaviour for what it is then maybe people will think twice about the sort of 'evidence' that they put in the public domain to come under scrutiny.

Or maybe we should all just stick our heads in the sand and pretend to rise above it.

What do you all think?

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 Post subject: Re: Should Paranormal groups be critical of one another?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 9:27 pm 
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Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 10:35 am
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Location: northumberland
well they can't expect to upload a video like that and not be criticised, it doesn't look real and them claiming it to be real...well...there credibility aint gonna get any better.

look at TAPS they get criticised alot, its the way things go.


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 Post subject: Re: Should Paranormal groups be critical of one another?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 9:33 pm 
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Someone We Know

Joined: Wed May 30, 2012 8:37 pm
Posts: 38
Personally I think groups should come together to discuss better ways of catching these things or explaining what could be going on. It seems they're all in competition with each other. There are people like me who hasn't really got the means to all this scientific equipment, who rely on these groups to help us find out what's happening and whether we're experiencing something real or if it's all just an over-active imagination.

If I was to go to a site and see a ton of pics of orbs, i'd wonder if that group were serious about their investigations and whether they were putting every little thing down to paranormal. I wouldn't want that. I'd want the truth. It's like someone who suffers anxiety, putting every little symptom down to anxiety when there could be an underlying cause. They need to get to the bottom of it and find out what's causing those orbs. Is it dust? Moisture? Or could it really be something starting to manifest? (personally i'm not a big believer in orbs)

If teams have to backstab and put each other down, that's not the sign of a good investigative team. I'd say rise above it, let them get on with it and you continue to do the best you can with your own team :D

Hope that's what this question was about lol


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 Post subject: Re: Should Paranormal groups be critical of one another?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 9:42 pm 
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Location: northumberland
thats a good point Venus3k3


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 Post subject: Re: Should Paranormal groups be critical of one another?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 11:25 pm 
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The Ferryman
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Part of the problem is that when videos are put forward such as the ones Dok is talking about - then it casts a shadow over all groups when it comes to those of a more sceptical disposition. Those videos get laughed it, the group responsible gets laughed at and then we ALL get laughed at for believing such "rubbish" and we all get tarred with the same brush.

You could put another example forward. When a medium is "outed" as being fake it causes all mediums to be cast in the same light. Now I'm certainly not saying mediums are in communication with the dead - they may be, the may not be, I don't know - but when a charlatan is exposed, it exposes them all in some little way as they all have to carry the extra weight around that the fake has placed upon them.

Likewise with a group. Whether they put forward a video such as been put forward here and its claimed to be real or a group is found out faking evidence or faking activity on an investigation - then we all suffer in the credibility stakes.

Over the years, members of NGI have experienced what we believe to be bona-fide paranormal activity. True, there maybe some obscure explanation that has so far escaped us or some mad crazy co-incidence that saw a whole load of variables come together at once against all probability - but as far as we're concerned there was no explanation at the time and still to this day, none.

When videos emerge that are "obviously" fake and passed off as real by a group, it dilutes the experiences and evidence that others put forward. I've seen what we would traditionally call a ghost on investigation - what we'd call a shadow person - and so to see a Scooby Doo shadow "captured" on video by a team who are seemingly passing it off as real (and I still hope to God this video is meant to be tongue in cheek), completely diminishes what I've experienced and brings scorn upon me (and others) when recounting our experiences to others.

Stuff like this destroys the credibility of a topic that is by it's nature already on pretty shaky ground and so naming and shaming those who do it can only benefit the rest of us.

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 Post subject: Re: Should Paranormal groups be critical of one another?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 11:37 pm 
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Elite Investigator
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Well said Jay. You've managed to put into words probably what many genuine paranormal enthusiasts or groups feel about all these types of shenanigans.


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 Post subject: Re: Should Paranormal groups be critical of one another?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 12:36 am 
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Scaredy Cat

Joined: Thu May 31, 2012 3:40 pm
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Personally i still haven't been able to figure out the vid is serious or self-parody. Maybe that says more about paranormal groups generally that this one specifically!

To answer Mark's question, I don't know. As you point out there are 2 sides to it. What I do know is that sometimes you can't help call BS and say something. Sometimes you can do it diplomatically, sometimes you've just got to call a spade a F****** shovel.

Another problem is Venus, a lot - in fact I'd argue the majority, of groups are not interested in discussing things or looking for better or more appropriate ways of doing things. They might say they are, but the reality is any genuine question directed at how or why they do things or some piece of "evidence" or claim is either ignored or seen as a personal attack. When people's beliefs or vested interests are so entwined with their thinking and approach to this stuff it becomes virtually impossible to have any kind of meaningful discussion about it. And that's not even getting into the people who's main concern is in what way the subject can line their pockets or boost their egos.

There are good genuine groups and individuals out there, but they're not that common in my own experience. I'm not sure if the obviously iffy groups do reflect badly on the more genuine ones. But they do make certain things a lot more frustrating and difficult. We can all be better at what we do. Difference is some of us strive to do that, while others have zero interest in it.


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 Post subject: Re: Should Paranormal groups be critical of one another?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:38 pm 
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Someone We Know
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If a video/photograph is in the public domain, then its open to be critiqued: however, its down to how its done: flaming, insulting and ridiculing harm everyone concerned (including the person delivering the 'criticism'), whilst debate, constructive observation and actual questions lead to the beginning of good investigation.

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 Post subject: Re: Should Paranormal groups be critical of one another?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 8:59 am 
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Someone Very Strange

Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 10:20 am
Posts: 112
It's a lot like casting stones in a glasshouse -

if you criticise be prepared for everything you've ever said to be scrutinised and thrown back at you....that's why groups usually have private areas for the permanent members.....so thay can bitch and back bite out of the public gaze.

Others don't want to be criticised, they certainly don't want to be educated in better ways or taught that what they consider paranormal is in fact completely explainable.....

so let them be, a polite smile then ignore, and file that particular group/individual away as "dodgy" and have nothing more to do with them. makes for a quieter life all round and after all Life's too short as it is.


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