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 Post subject: Re: Ouija boards
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 3:21 pm 
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AprilButterfly wrote:
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the fact that the words I said actually got this lady in tears, is proof that I got the person she was wanting to hear from.


I'm sorry but that''s a long way from proof I'm afraid.
I'm not saying that you can't do what you claim and I'm sure you brought some comfort to the lady, but it can't be classed as proof.

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 Post subject: Re: Ouija boards
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 3:26 pm 
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you'll have the detractors stating (as has happened to me) you supplied just enough general information for the recipient to interpret this in accordance with their predefined conceptions, they wanted to see aunt mabel and so they did..

OK then explain this one.

I was sitting in a friend's kitchen as she made her husband and me a cup of tea....

and then a chap appeared to me. wearing an outrageous maroon waistcoat, nudging his haed at my friend as thogh - go on tell her.

so I did in my usual style - there's a chap here who....and so on.

then I was shown and old fashioned car - rather like a 1950s wolsley or somesuch which I described and still no recognition.

then a picture flashed through my mind of a feather boa in green and white and the words very clear "Tell her she's a floozy"

coughing and spluttering I explained that I couldn't possibly...at which he smiled and said again tell her..

so apologising for wat I was going to say I did..

my friend burst into peals of laughter - she recognised him at last - years before she had been an English teacher (I didn't know) and they had put on a play called the Boyfriend - and my friend was demonstrating (with feather boa) how to vamp around the stage - at which point her colleague had said _ You're nothing but a floozy.

then the chap smiled and went on his way.


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 Post subject: Re: Ouija boards
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 3:35 pm 
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Well at face value it would appear you scored a couple of good hits, but is this proof?

At the end of the day, because it was someone you knew and you were doing the 'reading' face to face, it's not going to hold up the scrutiny. If any medium wants their abilities to be regarded as proof of the afterlife then you got to have all the relevant safeguards in place.

I don't know why so many mediums are bothered about proving things to others anyway. I'm personally not out to prove the existence of an afterlife, I'm just looking for answers to questions that have bugged me for years.

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 Post subject: Re: Ouija boards
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 3:53 pm 
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there are way too many questions you have un answered Dok.

I know another time at work (which I try my hardest to switch off from spirit as I am at work) where a colleuge was sat to my left and this is one spirit light I seen floating straight towards my friend and spirit said 'tell her I have always been there, and always will be in your heart forever' carn't remember what else way said, but I had to say what I heard and say what I seen.. this lady is a reiki leader herself and does believe in the afterlife, as soon as I told her, she opened her mouth and did actually say that she always asked if this certain person was with her, now that I answered her question she was happy.

Wodenborn, a very interesting situation there, I know spirit can get really close to you at any time of day (or night >,<...) lol, many times I have been woken and told to write things down

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 Post subject: Re: Ouija boards
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 4:00 pm 
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Like what April? Ask me a question and I'll give you my answer to it.

How do you know you are communicating with actual spirits of the departed?
Could it not be your own mind?
Could you possibly be using some sort of ESP to read a persons mind?

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 Post subject: Re: Ouija boards
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 4:27 pm 
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how was I to know the friend was asking the exact question regarding a loved one? I hardly knew her at the time, I believe I was only working there a couple of month myself. i even got the sex correct, it was a female

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 Post subject: Re: Ouija boards
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 4:39 pm 
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Well I can't really give you an answer without knowing the exact question. The question could have been very general for all I know.

As for the sex you've got 50% of getting that right which is bloody good odds.

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 Post subject: Re: Ouija boards
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 4:55 pm 
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lol, no winning

you know there is something out there ;) if there wasn't these questions of 'what is out there' you wouldn't be investigating.

The question which I asked the friend for was as I posted above

friend - 'I always asked if she was around me anytime'

and my answer from spirit was

Quote:
'tell her I have always been there, and always will be in your heart forever' carn't remember what else way said, but I had to say what I heard and say what I seen..

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 Post subject: Re: Ouija boards
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 5:00 pm 
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In all fairness that question is a pretty standard one for someone visiting a medium who is desperate to speak to a loved one.

Yes I'm convinced that there is something 'out there' but I have no reason to believe it's spirits of our dear departed than any of the other multitude of possible explanations. That's why I like investigating.

It's so easy to come across as the bad guy when arguing over matters such as these. Believe me when I say that I'm not arguing against the reality of meduimship, I'm just arguing the point about what constitutes proof and I don't think anyone (including me) has any.

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 Post subject: Re: Ouija boards
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 5:09 pm 
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always arguments in this matter, always will be ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Ouija boards
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 9:08 pm 
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I wish I could remember to write things down...I never do though...

Proof

personally I have always believed that unless you have witnessed something for yourself you (generic) will never be convinced....and even then some people rebel and say "I made it up it's all imagination"


one man's (woman's) reality is another's fantasy....please don't crush my fantasy it's the only one i've got.

8-)


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 Post subject: Re: Ouija boards
PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 4:35 pm 
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I am honoured with all I have witnessed, and sure hope there are many other things I can witness also.

I would never crush your fantasties ;) I enjoy reading up on everyone's experiences. Sometimes I get information and feel as though I am going mad as 'it sounds stupid, I cannot repeat that, I will look a fool.' but surley enough the person can take the message... I have always been told to say exactly what is put in my mind... and thats what I do ... fantasie or no fantastie :D I dont care, I am open minded on everything

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 Post subject: Re: Ouija boards
PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 5:23 pm 
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ok

at Tholthorpe I was just sitting after the investigation talking away,,,when a ginger and white cat strolled in (in spirit) and started rubbing itself up against one of the investigators legs.

so I asked Sue " do you have a ginger and white cat ?"

the answer " no but I used to...polly died."

note I never asked "did you have a cat..."
and then next question pick the obvious "was the colour Black/white..".

however this will be yet another example that the sceptics will twist and turn to find some reason why I didn't see a ginger cat, and why the woman I was talking to admitted she had one (previously) when she never did.

what a depressing world this really is


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 Post subject: Re: Ouija boards
PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 5:07 pm 
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one thing I was always taught in the development classes and that is 'never ask questions.' so as you asked the question
Quote:
do you have a ginger and white cat ?"
I would of put it in a way like

'I get the feeling that there is a ginger and white cat close by yourself...'

or something like that anyhow

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 Post subject: Re: Ouija boards
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 11:35 am 
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The thing about proof is that personal experiences, quite rightly, dont count as proof to others.
So when you talk about proof, to me they are simple anecdotes. Recollections from your life.
To be blunt, a story.

It doesnt mean I dont beleive you or that I am calling your integrity ito question. It just means very little to me.

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 Post subject: Re: Ouija boards
PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 8:23 am 
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Quote:
The thing about proof is that personal experiences, quite rightly, dont count as proof to others.
So when you talk about proof, to me they are simple anecdotes. Recollections from your life.
To be blunt, a story.


I am trying not to get angry here, as this is a direct assault on many many serious credible honest people who have come forward to face such withering scorn and let the world know of what they experienced.

one day, I truly hope, that you physically witness something yourself...but then have the honesty to come forward and proclaim "I just saw something" and not hide it away under the banner of "Hallucination". And then I hope that no one will turn around to you and say...

Recollections from your life....To be blunt, a story.

It just means very little to me.


Buggering off as I don't belong here.


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 Post subject: Re: Ouija boards
PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 9:07 am 
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I think you can be serious, credible and honest about what you've experienced, but that still doesn't mean what you believe is necessarily the truth.

I've experienced what I genuinely believe is poltergeist activity, but I have no proof of this. It is frustrating when people try to explain my experience away, but in the end what happened to me is still only anecdotal and without evidence I can't expect really expect everybody to just take my word for it.

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 Post subject: Re: Ouija boards
PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 9:28 am 
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Wodenborn wrote:
Quote:
The thing about proof is that personal experiences, quite rightly, dont count as proof to others.
So when you talk about proof, to me they are simple anecdotes. Recollections from your life.
To be blunt, a story.


I am trying not to get angry here, as this is a direct assault on many many serious credible honest people who have come forward to face such withering scorn and let the world know of what they experienced.

one day, I truly hope, that you physically witness something yourself...but then have the honesty to come forward and proclaim "I just saw something" and not hide it away under the banner of "Hallucination". And then I hope that no one will turn around to you and say...

Recollections from your life....To be blunt, a story.

It just means very little to me.


Buggering off as I don't belong here.


I dont see what I said is anything to get angry about.
All are welcome here, I was merely making a comment about the discussion that is on going.

What YOU experience, what you see as proof....when recounted to me is nothing more than a story. What you experience is personal to you and maybe the others that are there. It is not in anyway proof to others that the paranormal exists.

I'm truelly sorry you cannot see things this way....it was never my intention to offend anyone.
I dont readily beleive in the afterlife, so I have a differing view point to yourself. If you cannot accept that I dont share the same oppinions as you then perhaps this is the wrong place. All are welcome here....irrespective of belief.

Also, please dont intentionally misquote me for effect. I finnished with the line:

Quote:
It doesnt mean I dont beleive you or that I am calling your integrity ito question. It just means very little to me.


Which is very different from

Quote:
It just means very little to me

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 Post subject: Re: Ouija boards
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 9:48 am 
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looks like we wont see Wodenborn on here again which is a shame as i thought he was a good poster.

it's a shame when debates force people to leave because of people's differences on what they believe.

If a person's "story" was actually true and they did indeed see something surely that must count for something?


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 Post subject: Re: Ouija boards
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 10:02 am 
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Wodenborn was a great poster and I really hope he comes back.

It is a shame when people can't just debate, especially when I don't think there was any question of peoples integrity being brought into doubt, just what actually constitutes 'proof' to people who didn't witness things first hand.

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 Post subject: Re: Ouija boards
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 11:32 am 
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martin-j wrote:
looks like we wont see Wodenborn on here again which is a shame as i thought he was a good poster.

it's a shame when debates force people to leave because of people's differences on what they believe.

If a person's "story" was actually true and they did indeed see something surely that must count for something?



So if I tell you that I saw a ghost in my house. That would be proof to you thatr ghosts do exist?

Thats all I was trying to get across, that what he see's is proof to him and perhaps those that are there at the same time. To me, when he tells it here, its just a story and is meaningless when it comes to proof.

I never once called his integrity into question and to be honest if I wanted to I would have and there would have been no mistaking it either.
Today I shall send him a message trying to clear up the issue and see if I can get him back on the forum.

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 Post subject: Re: Ouija boards
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 11:40 am 
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I know you witnessed a 'big creeping shadow' thing Anth when you were with Andrea that time. Unfortunately it didn't appear on the video footage so we're just left with your testimony.

I've no doubt you did witness something though, but like yourself I've no idea what, and without any other data such as the video I suppose we'll always be left wondering.

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 Post subject: Re: Ouija boards
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 1:17 pm 
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doktor_phibes wrote:
I know you witnessed a 'big creeping shadow' thing Anth when you were with Andrea that time. Unfortunately it didn't appear on the video footage so we're just left with your testimony.

I've no doubt you did witness something though, but like yourself I've no idea what, and without any other data such as the video I suppose we'll always be left wondering.



Exactly Mark, and thats what I was getting at :)

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 Post subject: Re: Ouija boards
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 1:45 pm 
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Anth wrote:
martin-j wrote:
looks like we wont see Wodenborn on here again which is a shame as i thought he was a good poster.

it's a shame when debates force people to leave because of people's differences on what they believe.

If a person's "story" was actually true and they did indeed see something surely that must count for something?



So if I tell you that I saw a ghost in my house. That would be proof to you thatr ghosts do exist?



don't get me wrong i understand where your coming from, because anyone could make it up. now what if it was someone you know very well and don't make up stories? surely it has at least a little more credibility ?


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 Post subject: Re: Ouija boards
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 2:04 pm 
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I think it's more about how things are interpreted than just 'making things up'. I know Anth pretty well and I know he didn't make his story about the 'shadow creeper' up, but could Anth and Andrea have interpreted what they saw in certain way that may not have been the real cause of the phenomena?

It's possible, just like it's possible that they did witness something paranormal, but without anything to analyse it leaves us a bit stuck.

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