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 Post subject: Do Skeptics use Science as a weapon?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 9:49 am 
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The Ferryman
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Do you think that Skeptics use Science as a weapon to attack/dismiss things that do not fall into their accepted view of the universe, instead of using it as a methodology to investigate claims?

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 Post subject: Re: Do Skeptics use Science as a weapon?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 3:09 pm 
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A cynic maybe would, be a true sceptic wouldn't :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Do Skeptics use Science as a weapon?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 3:17 pm 
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I agree, but to me there seems to be far too many cynics out there masquerading a skeptics.
It takes a lot more to admit you are a cynic than it does a skeptic.

One implies you aren't willing to listen to a well reasoned argument, while the other makes you seem more rational (no matter how you actually behave.)

It's the same in reverse I suppose though. I would never describe myself as a believer as it causes people to make presumptions about your reasoning power, although I do actually 'believe' in certain paranormal events. I just have no idea what causes them.

I think skepticism is a way of looking at things rather than a belief system anyway which it is how is is commonly regarded.

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 Post subject: Re: Do Skeptics use Science as a weapon?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 3:29 pm 
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I haven't seen many skeptics use science to debunk things. But then, technically most of those 'skeptics' have actually been 'cynics', talking down to people when debunking stuff without doing any better when 'disproving' things.


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 Post subject: Re: Do Skeptics use Science as a weapon?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 3:34 pm 
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Most of the ones I have encountered are involved in little or no actual research themselves. They basically just repeat what some other skeptical researcher has said, and because it happens to be the same with what they already 'know' to be the truth, they just blindly go along with it and have a laugh at all us gullible idiots in the process.

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 Post subject: Re: Do Skeptics use Science as a weapon?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 5:46 am 
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Yeah, while never going on a hunt themselves, or they did and nothing paranormal happened, so therefore that 'proves' everything is explainable and there is no such things as ghosts and the like.

No, I've never seen the latter happen before to a skeptic, where they actually TRIED to get any kind of evidence. Figures...


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 Post subject: Re: Do Skeptics use Science as a weapon?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 2:27 pm 
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Have recently had this chat on a local football forum .. not the best place to discuss such things, I agree .. but the statement that Dok mentioned above : many cynics masquerading as sceptics .. (or words to that effect) .. couldn't be more apt .. what I gleaned was :

  • Despite never getting off their lazy fat ass and investigating things themselves nor research - they proclaim themselves "experts" on the subject and blindly dismiss anything anyone says because they are a "crank".

  • A complete inability to consider that somthing can happen - despite how rare - that falls outside of what we could "explain" given current understanding of the world ... ever ... to these guys, anything "new" thats been discovered in the history of science would never be discovered - it would just be dismissed instantly by these "experts".

  • An inability to read what people say - despite saying numerous times through the thread that I a) don't believe in "ghosts" .. and b) I tend to think "something" outside of what we "know" is going on but don't know what that is, but don't think its "ghosts" ... I was still constantly asked to "prove" that ghosts exist ... DOH! .. basically, being a "crank", I automatically believe in ghosts, ufo's, fairies and pixies.

  • A complete lack of detail observation and not believing the details are important in any observation .. they "make no difference" apparantly ...

  • ... Yet, despite this lack of adherence to the details and not thinking them important, claim that they could look at "evidence" objectively.

  • If the world was up to these guys, they'd still be living in caves because none of them would explore, push boundaries, stretch their understanding and would poo-poo their neighbours who were living in a comfy semi-detatched house with electricity and running hot-water ... until they read on the back of a corn-flakes box some tidbit trivia "telling" them they a semi-detatched was the way to go ..

  • If they didn't see it - it didn't happen. Forget what other people see / witness and experience. If THEY didn't see it .. it just didn't happen and is impossible.

  • Despite them rejecting the idea of anything paranormal - they all seem willing to demonstrate their excellently developed Psychic, Scrying and Remote Viewing skills to tell people exactly what they witnessed and experienced despite the "sceptical / cynical" Remote Viewers being 100 mile away and only finding out about the event 4 years later. Time Travellers too apparantly.

  • Of course, they were all "open minded" and could use objective reasoning .. despite the details not being important.

I've got all the time in the world for sceptical views ... but the "Open Minded" debunker .. I shit out you from a great height.

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 Post subject: Re: Do Skeptics use Science as a weapon?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 2:31 pm 
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The Ferryman
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Jay wrote:
Despite them rejecting the idea of anything paranormal - they all seem willing to demonstrate their excellently developed Psychic, Scrying and Remote Viewing skills to tell people exactly what they witnessed and experienced despite the "sceptical / cynical" Remote Viewers being 100 mile away and only finding out about the event 4 years later. Time Travellers too apparantly.


Love it :D

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 Post subject: Re: Do Skeptics use Science as a weapon?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 6:33 pm 
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Not entirely sure how science can be used to explain things around which science has no measurement scale or hard evidence?
Easy to quantify things like electrical charge or mass or distance and work out speed, time etc based on what we now but how can science sceptics say for certain that something is or isnt a ghost when they have no basis for comparison?
They are quick to say it isnt but cant decide why it isnt what it isnt.

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 Post subject: Re: Do Skeptics use Science as a weapon?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 9:22 pm 
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doktor_phibes wrote:
Jay wrote:
Despite them rejecting the idea of anything paranormal - they all seem willing to demonstrate their excellently developed Psychic, Scrying and Remote Viewing skills to tell people exactly what they witnessed and experienced despite the "sceptical / cynical" Remote Viewers being 100 mile away and only finding out about the event 4 years later. Time Travellers too apparantly.


Love it :D


Its great ..

So I was in the room and this great big billowing mist came floating in through the closed door .. it hovered slightly in the center of the room .. pulsing and throbbing as though breathing .. and then, without warning, zipped upwards through the roof ...

Ahhh .. someone was having a ciggie .. its was just smoke from a fag

Did you read what I said? It came THROUGH the closed door and then zipped upwards and went THROUGH the roof

The details aren't important. I read on the back of a cornflakes box that .. misty ghost = fag smoke .. thats all you saw, my crystal ball says so .. classic case of Paredolia or Hallucination .. fucking crank ..

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 Post subject: Re: Do Skeptics use Science as a weapon?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2011 9:42 am 
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Abaddon wrote:
Not entirely sure how science can be used to explain things around which science has no measurement scale or hard evidence?
Easy to quantify things like electrical charge or mass or distance and work out speed, time etc based on what we now but how can science sceptics say for certain that something is or isnt a ghost when they have no basis for comparison?
They are quick to say it isnt but cant decide why it isnt what it isnt.


As far as I'm aware, science is used to put forward plausible natural explanations as alternatives to the paranormal theory, rather than use science to quantify a ghost, which as you say is impossible as no physical evidence of ghosts exist as a control medium.

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 Post subject: Re: Do Skeptics use Science as a weapon?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2011 10:49 am 
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So by extension if something has not been quantified or measured previously or has no known current natural explanation then it cant exist?

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 Post subject: Re: Do Skeptics use Science as a weapon?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2011 12:12 pm 
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Um, no... where did I say that?

If the ghost phenomenon is ever proven to exist, then it will enter mainstream science and lose the term paranormal. However, until the phenomenon is proven to exist as a single or combination of elements, then it will not be recognised by science.

Something that has not as yet been proven to exist cannot be measured by science by definition. Science in all its many facets can often be used however to offer alternative explanations to events often misconstrued as paranormal.

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 Post subject: Re: Do Skeptics use Science as a weapon?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2011 5:19 pm 
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Or can misinterpret the data and come to an incorrect conclusion?
Playing devils advocate here btw. As a sensitive and believer I don't automatically say it's always paranormal but some sceptics don't balance all the facts. It's almost as if their supposed rationality about the paranormal makes them irrationally opposed to it.

But then some sensitives don't help themselves and every knock is an attempt at communication, every cold spot is a presence....

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 Post subject: Re: Do Skeptics use Science as a weapon?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2011 6:46 pm 
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I think skeptics, cynics and beleivers all do the same thing.

I have no way of knowing where abbadon gets his info, he has no way to prove to me, so where does that leave us?

If you dont have a healthy respect for all areas then you cannot properly investigate.
science cant really be used as a weapon, it can be used as an explanation though. No matter what we all "know" one day it WILL be science that explains things that are currently paranormal.

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 Post subject: Re: Do Skeptics use Science as a weapon?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 12:45 am 
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Abaddon wrote:
Or can misinterpret the data and come to an incorrect conclusion?


Depends what data you're talking about really, as well as the level of expertise attained by the one drawing the conclusions.

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 Post subject: Re: Do Skeptics use Science as a weapon?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 9:08 am 
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I think the point that I am trying to make is that some sceptics aren't actually sceptical....they tot disbelieve but take the position of sitting on the fence in order to appear impartial.

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 Post subject: Re: Do Skeptics use Science as a weapon?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 3:58 pm 
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In that case, such individuals aren't sceptics at all by definition alone: they're cynics.

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