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 Post subject: Re: Fear of the afterlife
PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 8:12 pm 
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Someone Strange
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Of course I'm being deliberately provocative but I am trying to get some answers too.

Detail and clarity are important and necessary. They prevent ambiguity ad hiding places for those who are not entirely secure in their position. ;)

With regards religion; you'll get no argument from me. Spiritual belief is one thing but religion has only ever existed as a means to control others and obtain power & influence.

I'll also agree that much of modern science is dictated via the desires associated with the greed of those who finance it; especially so since the turn of the 20th century. It goes back much further too but not in such a commercial sense.

However, what I keep getting from a large number of those involved with ghost hunting, alternative therapies and such like is a concerted repulsion of science and scientific method but without real hard evidence to support their contentions. As Jay says, they cherrypick the bits to suit rather than look at the whole picture.

Your original post seemed to be allying to that line of thought. Now you appear to be agreeing more with what I am trying to put across in that your enemy is not science (the individuals, the process or even the massed ranks) but the way it is used and abused by politicians and the super wealthy businessmen supported by unthinking media. You'll find that many within the scientific and other academic communities are just as upset and annoyed about how they are represented.

My points are why the anti-science stance? Is it just because it does not wholeheartedly accept or agree with opinions? There are members of the paranormal community who just don't want to accept anything which has been proven by science. Undoubtedly there are many more things to be learnt and some accepted facts will ultimately get overturned but we have to work with our current knowledge until such time. History proves this out as most of the fundamentals have not changed in thousands of years of study. Why not work in a more scientific fashion? At least that would render you (as in a generic 'you') some more credibility. It doesn't deny the possibility of trying to test alternatives - it is actually encouraged.

We live in a greed led society where there will always be those who strive to have more or to control others. Very few societies throughout the whole history of mankind have managed to avoid that. In the World we live in this divide is becoming increasingly obvious to more and more people and more of them are starting to realise that big finance and the (often incredibly lazy and unwilling to provide full and frank information) mass media is being used by such people to dictate to the majority. I don't see a mass revolution on the horizon so we have to work within the remit that we have. Distasteful as that may be at times.

Bringing this back to just the paranormal rather than a rant about politics and social manipulation (areas we probably agree upon far more than not) I have yet to hear any convincing reasons why the paranormal investigators belonging to ghost hunting groups are so anti-science and scientific method. Certainly within the West (not so much some other parts of the planet) there is a freedom to say whatever you like even if the major newspapers tend to opt for mainstream or views allied to their owners and senior managers opinions. It's not science putting the blocks on so why the distrust and furore?

As stated previously, it is obvious how the direction that science (and other subjects) heads is directly influenced by those funding it. 'Those' being the ones with the most wealth to use for their own advantage. During the Renaissance periods we had bouts where there was more diverse thinking but it has always been the preserve of those who can afford to spend time thinking (and plotting) as opposed to those who have to use their time to live. It's still permitted people to explore alternatives however.
I'm yet to be given any real and supportable evidence that proves that science has the same or even a similar role in controlling peoples thinking or actions on a par with religion.

Just because science is not perfect is no reason to disregard it in its entirety; especially so as the vast majority has been proven to be correct and beneficial in both its working and results. How would paranormal research fair put up against the same degree of pointing? Maybe that is why the subject is not considered seriously by many?


Right. Now to find one of the threads re dirty jokes... :)
I had a great night out with a load of burlesque types last night. Theatre is such a corrupting influence don't you think? :twisted:


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 Post subject: Re: Fear of the afterlife
PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 8:15 pm 
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Claire - Hangman, not Hanged

Claire - "I agree with everything Jay said." LOL Come on, you're bright enough to have your own say too. :p


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 Post subject: Re: Fear of the afterlife
PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 9:44 pm 
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read plenty of other threads on here (and other forums),you'll see the same things being repeated by both of us in our own ways,Jay and I lock horns constantly,but despite that we do agree on things and will both happily say so when we do,even if we are bickering to fuck over other issues hehehe!I love it when I dont have to type explanations etc cos Jay has just summed up pretty much what I am on about in a way people seem to find far more palatable than my own!

You seem to want people involved with the paranormal and ghosthunting to conform to your 'preconcieved ideas' of what they are, but as I know from speaking to you you've found this isnt necessarily the case,so not sure why your saying on here that it is.......unless of course your just being deliberately provocative and trying to get answers hehehehehe!!!

We all cherrypick, you me,Jay,scientists,priests,politicians,musicians,artists,magicians we all do it blah blah blah,whats interesting is the 'cherries' that people choose to 'pick' from my perspective..................and their 'stones' of motivation........

I'm not aware of any investigators who are against science or scientific methods personally,despite varying beliefs.What I am aware of is people who use 'science' or scientific methods' (often badly on scrutiny but cos they hide behind things other people not as educated on the subject arent that aware they know they wont get into many debates with long words delivered confidently for fear of looking ignorant or foolish themselves,when their point is just as valid, but because they might not get it across as 'academic'/confidently/verbosely as others they back down in debates and on forums especially) to ram their (cherry picked) opinions rudely down peoples throats,hiding behind often incorrect,and at best usually 'badly applied' practical applications of 'science' on investigations,often not 'investigators' themselves but those who have some kind of 'science based' background or interest, giving the wrong impression of (the art of)science in regards to investigations and the paranormal (and in general) generally seeming to feel a need to 'enlighten' and 'educate' those poors twats I mean 'believers' who are 'deluded' hehehehehe..........then wondering why they dont get taken seriously by them hehehehehe!!!Polar opposites of the same thing............yawn.......

Science,politics,social manipulation blah blah blah are all involved in the 'paranormal',impossible to seperate or dismiss cos they might seem to be 'unusual topics' when discussing the subject,you've said yourself several times that the cultural aspects of societies play a validly influencial role regarding 'the paranormal',it always makes me laugh that 'cultural influences' seem now (at last!) to be getting more widely accepted as factors to be taking into account,or 'investigated' in regards the 'paranormal'......but then when people use things outside the 'trends' or 'buzzwords' etc its 'time for a subject change cos thats not relevant' ,(or is 'lumped' as belonging to 'other subjects' in peoples rigidly structured minds)hehehehehe,despite it obviously being relevant.

Your 'evidence' regarding 'science has the same or even a similar role in controlling peoples thinking or actions on a par with religion' is all around you,should you choose (cherry pick hehe!) to see it.............Jays given you a few pointers above,plenty more by me him or others in other threads on here and other places.......................

science or religion is not disegarded by myself or Jay (will you ever read the posts properly I wonder (( big deep dramatic sigh........)) hehehehehehe!!!)

How does 'normal' (not paranormal) fair when put up with the same degree of scrutiny as the 'paranormal'................like I always say,its not whats 'paranormal' thats not what it seems..............look at 'normal' then go forth from there,one and the same!!!

The bigger picture always, then the details, its not 'what' people think its 'how' people think....................

Ah get ya now hangedman!!!!!!!
you've spent the night leering at gorgeous volumptious women (and want us to know!),so are now in a much better mood,good! - it suits you,you should go there more often hehehehehehehehehehehehehe!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

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 Post subject: Re: Fear of the afterlife
PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 4:27 am 
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Of course I'm being deliberately provocative. Did notice that none of my questions have been answered but sidestepped. :p

Seriously, I like to consider myself to be fairly open to new ideas. They still have to pass through MY filters but I'm far more liberal than I usually present. I does concern (that actually over amplifies what I want to say but 'interests' isn't sufficient) me that there isn't more use made of scientific procedure within ghost groups conducting investigations. Even the more ethereal elements such as what people feel could be better correlated. I know NGI and a couple of others do make an attempt in that direction but as a whole the impression is that most are not interested in recording and analysing - just enjoying events as personal entertainment.

Oh I could get seriously addicted to Burlesque. I may have to alter part of my act with the escapology etc and join that circuit. I never realised how much fun could be had with a pair of tassels and a feather boa. :D :D :D


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 Post subject: Re: Fear of the afterlife
PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 12:42 pm 
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The issue isn't that science gets avoided, as such - its more to do with taking what you can get.

A lot of invos consist of a one night shot for a few hours. Science generally begins with an observation and then steps are put in place to understand the observation - that may be through data collection or whatever. Then, naturally, once a firm understanding is gained, an attempt to replicate what was observed.

When on a site most groups go in blind. This isn't a fault of the group - its just the nature of the game. We can all observe the sun, for instance - we just look up in the sky. But we don't all observe alleged paranormal activity (for whatever reason) at will. As such, those precious few hours spent on a night needs to start somewhere and that "somewhere" is entering the place and trying to observe first hand what others have commented on (or other stuff). Once that has happened, then you can start a process.

Unless your very fortunate, a group isn't going to get unfettered access to a location night after night after night. So we, for instance, may go to N E Old Pub and spend the night there just getting a feel for the place and trying to experience / observe anything which may be classed paranormal. Obviously, anything natural will be ruled out there and then.

If we return (due to things being experienced) - then we'll step up our efforts on the next visit focusing on / collecting data / replicating anything that happened previously - and then the next time, even more and on and on and on.

But that first visit is just about trying to find out whether there is anything to investigate or not. Ok, you'll record what you can on that visit (whether something happens or not) - but really, its more of an extended pre-visit to a location, rather than a full blown investigation at that point.

The more and more you return to a location - the more specific and the more investigative you get.

Some groups, yeah, try and enter a "virgin" location and have it all sorted, done and dusted, by the time the bacon buns are on the table next morning .. pretty daft if you ask me - but, each to their own I suppose - But I don't think you can thoroughly investigate a location in an 8 hour visit. On top of that, its even more difficult when doing a guest night.

So the first visit (and maybe most nights you do) - is about entering and observing. Yes, record what you experience / witness and yes, if a natural / obvious explanation exists then note it.

Its the next visit you make (and the next and next) - where the investigation begins.

So its a tad unfair to say ghost groups tend to avoid science and stuff when on a night out - Its just difficult to investigate phenomenon when you don't observe it yourself and unlike an apple - which falls from a tree and instigates an investigation as to why - you can't reset a ghostly knocking on a wall at will and repeat the observation.

So, to sum - first visits are usually like an extended pre-visit - you go to the place, spend the night there and see what, if anything, is experienced in the location. Yes, record what you can and rule out anything obvious if something does happen .. but the real work begins on subsequent visits.

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 Post subject: Re: Fear of the afterlife
PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 2:02 pm 
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Hangedman,I know from talking to you that what you say and how you present yourself on here is different,what I dont get is why you are presenting yourself like this on here,although its 'interesting'.........

Your aware of my opinions on the 'scientific procedure/methodology' across all aspects of the invo,as well as my frustration at times with how this is done at times includinfg by meself personally, also I know your aware of my understanding and frustration regarding 'scientific experiments',which usually in my experience on invos across the board seem to be nothing more than other ways to entertain people under the guise of 'scientific procedure', the 'application' of methodologies amnd controls are fuckin shite, and its something I feel strongly about and want to amend as and when NGI come into any deliberate 'experiment' areas,hence why I enjoyed the trial and error of the 1st acklam Hall 'experiment' (which was motivated by other reasons than the 'results' alone,but has good potential),which whilst it is a pain in many respects,its great to now go and make it 'watertight' ,and to hopefully go on to do this at all guest invos to soem degree to get a broader data etc.
The 'analysis' and 'presentation' of the 'accounts' on the night are areas which I'm working on as I personally feel they are 'unfinished'.I agree that this is an area that all groups I've come into contact with could tighten up on,however this is nothing to do with 'science' itself (I alternate between wanting to punch people and pissing myaelf laughing when I see groups harping on bout this as a 'selling' point of thier group hehe,especially when the reality turns out to be very different to whats on paper),cos to me this aint science, it aint a 'trick' or a 'angle', its basic fuckin common sense and how any investagation would be,despite beliefs,motivations and 'aims'.
Its when it gets lost under the huge 'science' 'banner', by those on thier own 'crusades',to reinforce thier own 'religion/belief systems' (usually same motivation at root of all yawn.........)that science is and give it a bad name, rather than just using basic common sense and applying it (the art of science).


I agree and disagree with that Jay,I'll be the same regrding collecting data on all visits etc,however I might focus my attention specifically on certain things after the 'first-extended pre visit' (1st night there etc) and the reports are in and done and things have presented them selves to 'focus on', (I'm presuming this is what you mean, if not i'm lost???),but to me the investigation starts from the moment I hear bout the venue,like I've said many times, the nights at the place are just 1 part of the investigative process,thats where the 'data' is collected so to speak,but it also is in the research before (which not all team do for obvious reasons etc),speaking to the people involved with the place (hopefully being able to extensively talk with them and record using a specific detailed methodology (which we've got,and although a pain to 'transcribe' I'm hoping it will bear 'fruit' - get that fuckin bloody report logger done Jay so stuff can be entered on it!),always it about on the night observing and recording,trying to 'replicate' goes hand in hand if and when it arises,I get what your saying bout how usually we 'go in blind', and I'm in favour of most of the team doing this, and I get what your saying with your post,but I dont get this:

''If we return (due to things being experienced) - then we'll step up our efforts on the next visit focusing on / collecting data / replicating anything that happened previously - and then the next time, even more and on and on and on.''

?????????????????????????????????????????????

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 Post subject: Re: Fear of the afterlife
PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 3:27 pm 
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I'm not saying you just go into a location "for a laugh and bugger investigation" .. I'm saying that if we go to a new location - then its virgin territory (for us). They can be stories of Grey Ladies .. Chairs being flung about .. or having ectoplasm drip on your face .. but all these are are stories from others.

Yes, you can (and should) research a location as much as possible before you go and record what you can about the place when you get there .. but until something is observed (or, the consequence of an action is come across) then you have no "phenomena" to actually investigate. You can investigate the location to see if there is anything that may account for any of the stories you've read - but thats just corroborating or ruling out those claims - but ultimately means nothing to you the investigator as it wasn't you that observed it in the first place.

But my point in that post was more aimed at that and the "scientific" approach that Iain brought up rather than researching a location or corroborating / ruling out claims.

Until something is observed / witnessed / experienced - then you can't ask "what caused it?" and can't do anything to answer the question (scientific or not) because it hasn't yet been asked!

So my point about just observing what goes on at first, is just that. Because alleged paranormal activity is relatively rare and can't be turned on like a tap an investigation therefore falls outside of what would be a "normal" or mainstream scientific investigation into something. If you want to investigate gravity, as I mentioned above, pick up an apple and drop it .. record data .. do it again .. record data .. do it with another object . record data .. etc etc .. then look at the data and try and come up with explanations / theories / maths to explain it.

With a "haunted house" you can't do that .. you can record the basic stuff about the place, but have to sit and wait for anything which could be paranormal to happen (if you can instigate it, even better). Maybe even a few things to build up a picture of the place and THEN you go to work.

But unless your lucky, thats not really going to happen on a one off visit to a location and repeat visits are needed. The more you visit, the more you observe (and can't be readily explained) and record and then you can begin to focus on certain things and begin to apply a scientific approach to understanding whats going on.

Thats not really going to happen in a one-off 8 hour visit to a location and its a tad unfair to say that paranormal groups tend to shun science if they are just being judged on that one off 8 hour visit, which could be their first visit to a location.

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 Post subject: Re: Fear of the afterlife
PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 3:34 pm 
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get you now Jay,agreed,thought that was what you meant but just got a bit confused,sorry!xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

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 Post subject: Re: Fear of the afterlife
PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 5:18 pm 
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...and do you get more corroborating evidence from follow-up visits?
Is there an exchange of information between different groups. I'm thinking the numbers game here - are people coming up with new things, repeating what others have reported or getting nothing- or getting something when others didn't?

Obviously there is potential for people to be led by information provided by others but making some allowance for that is there a central collection post of such data so events can be compared?

If nothing happens or is sensed at any specific location is that recorded too?


Genuinely not trying to trip anyone up but I'm interested in the process as much, if not more than, as the results.


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 Post subject: Re: Fear of the afterlife
PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 11:40 am 
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The thing I can't understand about people in this field is there constant drawling about "this is how it is" - "that's how it is", for fucks sake were all trying to prove one thing - if there's an afterlife or not! I agree to an extent with both Jay, and what your saying Hangman but bulling into what's right and what's wrong on such a level is completely pointless in my opinion, it doesn't solve fuck all. What Felix said about the stone tape theory, makes sense because there is proof that such a thing exists - it's peoples ignorance to the fact that stops it being "real".

Between us, I know for a fact that things happen that can't be explained by science or religion - that's all I need to know to carry on what I'm doing...

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 Post subject: Re: Fear of the afterlife
PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 11:46 am 
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That's what gets me about certain things such as 'Stone Tape'. The scientists may have arguments against why such a thing is possible, yet people still report seeing this kind of 'recorded' apparition. Something is causing people to see these things, so why not Stone Tape? It's as good as any other reason put forward.

Yes, people are often mistaken about what they witness, but to write off every experience of this kind in such a manner without having any real reason too is crazy in my opinion.

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 Post subject: Re: Fear of the afterlife
PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 11:53 am 
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I agree 100% mate, the fundamental scientific make-up suggests it's completely feasible. I was talking to a friend on Saturday night, he told me that some well respected research group that he corresponds with put some massive volts of electricity into a wall, they recorded all sorts of weird sounds as a consequence..

:shock:


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 Post subject: Re: Fear of the afterlife
PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 1:45 pm 
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triplow wrote:
I agree 100% mate, the fundamental scientific make-up suggests it's completely feasible. I was talking to a friend on Saturday night, he told me that some well respected research group that he corresponds with put some massive volts of electricity into a wall, they recorded all sorts of weird sounds as a consequence..

:shock:



After listening to Richard felix explain his stone tape theory I would be up for having a play about trying to get a recording out of bricks and stones etc.

Theres many ways to build a recording device, admittedly stripping stone down to its primary components and using it to record is a challenge and a half, but the theory is, in a way, sound.


(see that, clever huh? :mrgreen: )

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 Post subject: Re: Fear of the afterlife
PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 3:30 pm 
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Anth wrote:
triplow wrote:
I agree 100% mate, the fundamental scientific make-up suggests it's completely feasible. I was talking to a friend on Saturday night, he told me that some well respected research group that he corresponds with put some massive volts of electricity into a wall, they recorded all sorts of weird sounds as a consequence..

:shock:



After listening to Richard felix explain his stone tape theory I would be up for having a play about trying to get a recording out of bricks and stones etc.

Theres many ways to build a recording device, admittedly stripping stone down to its primary components and using it to record is a challenge and a half, but the theory is, in a way, sound.


(see that, clever huh? :mrgreen: )


Anth,

I'll tell you another tale I read about recently - a research group set-up some recording devices in an old building over night. After they reviewed the footage they were astounded to hear engines running and sounds as if in a workshop, it turned out some of the bricks used to build the house, had in fact been taken from an old motor-shop.
Now that is interesting, I think all you would have to do is somehow generate enough power to activate the sounds. Maybe a taser would do the trick - I'll have a look and see if they are legal :lol: :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Fear of the afterlife
PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 3:41 pm 
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Yip they're illegal :( :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Fear of the afterlife
PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 5:53 pm 
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shit, thats just reminded me of a convestation I've had with someone recently,fuck, I cant remember who with or where but I remember it,bloody hell,who was it,it was recently!!!!!!!!!

It was something about there was all sorts of shit going on, polt mad stuff (but I htink for soem reason it was more an 'alien' thing that they'd interpreted it as,but that might be another thing someone else was on about too),there was a knocking which was heard by all from the door, but no explanation for it or something, but when the sound was 'measured' it wasnt soundwaves at all that the noise was,but I cant remember what it was, but whatever it was even though it was heard and experienced by several people when it was 'measured' it wasnt 'sound' that showed up on the devices (whatever they were!),sorry thats shit, i'd forgotton bout it til now, just remembered ,or only half reemmbered,writing this here before I forget agsin, once I remember what exactly I'm on about i'll post it,just got in!!!

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 Post subject: Re: Fear of the afterlife
PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 6:08 pm 
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''were all trying to prove one thing - if there's an afterlife or not!''

I absolutely definately aint!!!!!!!!

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 Post subject: Re: Fear of the afterlife
PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 8:46 pm 
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There most definitely is something going on even if you only go by the sheer number of accounts, however, that still doesn't prove that the laws of physics have been altered; which they would have to if the Stone Tape Theory were to work.

Even if you accept STT or it's aquatic equivalent how come not all objects or ground are capable of this feat. As Richard points out - everything is made up of the same constituent parts.

Just because there is a theory does not mean it has to be so. If this were a possibility I'm sure that someone would have the evidence or a way of demonstrating how it could work by now. The planet is not short of scientists, engineers, the curious etc.

I'm more inclined to go with the assumption that people are influenced by their environment whether they are aware of it or not. Over 90 billion people have lived and died on this planet since mankind evolved and in Countries like ours there have been many turbulent times so it would not be unrealistic to expect 'activity' of some sort in most locations. I therefore find it strange and very interesting that there isn't.

When people experience the same or identical things, particularly in the same location, I am fascinated as it suggests that an external event occurred or identical physiological or psychological effects have taken place.

It does not take much research to discover that there have been significant differences in the type of reported sightings and happenings throughout history and between different cultures. If something like the STT were to hold true there should be no such discrepancies. The evidence of the reports does however point to a high likelihood that people are influenced by what they know or what they think they know.

By all means believe what you wish but don't get all defensive just because someone won't submit to the in-house creed. I'd be delighted if STT or any other could be proved - unfortunately it's so preposterous that it won't. Therefore, in MY OPINION, effort and energy is best placed in investigating and ruling in or out those areas we have at least a chance of being able to solve. Most of those being based on environmental factors, illusions, psychological effects etc. MY OPINION again but I believe that answers to ghosts, psychics, mediums and other paranormal and supernatural happenings stand more of a chance of being answered if people focus on what may be attainable rather than careering off on wild goose chases.

Call it bullying if you like. I call it being forthright and using ones intelligence.

Find the proof to support the STT and I'll happily change 'sides' but I don't think we are on opposing sides at all; just have very different perspectives as to where answers are likely to come from.


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 Post subject: Re: Fear of the afterlife
PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 8:50 pm 
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No search for the afterlife from me either. The whole idea of that is alien to me as spiritual hokkum. I am very interested in trying to find out what this spiritual thing is and how it gets to be experienced/perceived (or not).


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 Post subject: Re: Fear of the afterlife
PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 10:02 pm 
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Hangman wrote:
MY OPINION again but I believe that answers to ghosts, psychics, mediums and other paranormal and supernatural happenings stand more of a chance of being answered if people focus on what may be attainable rather than careering off on wild goose chases.


Which is quite clearly what's been going on in this thread for the past day or two!

Hangman wrote:
Call it bullying if you like. I call it being forthright and using ones intelligence


"Bullying" I said "bulling" - you don't intimidate me at all mate, or you "intelligence" :?

Your entitled to you said "opinion", or was it "OPINION" all you want, but putting it across in such an arrogant/egotistical manor won't win you any perks in my book! Whether that bothers you or not, I couldn't give a rats arse. We all have our opinions on the "paranormal", but I'd rather voice mine in an appropriate manor, especially towards people I have a lot of time and respect for...


Now go on and drawl on for the next three pages about my post..

Peace J :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: Fear of the afterlife
PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 10:40 pm 
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Someone Strange
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I won't waste my time with someone so ignorant. Not fair on the others here who do appreciate independent thought. I suggest you may prefer to just skip and ignore my posts in future if you're incapable of following a conversation without believing it to be personal.

You may want to look up arrogant and egotistical in a decent dictionary. I've deliberately chosen some provocative wording but those don't apply THIS TIME. LMAO


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 Post subject: Re: Fear of the afterlife
PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 12:24 am 
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Now now children! Lets all play together nicely! :D

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 Post subject: Re: Fear of the afterlife
PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 12:37 am 
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Well for those who doubt, I wil need some tape, some iron filings and something magnetic.

Low and behold we have a tape recorder. It really is just about as simple as that. PLaying it back and making sense of whats on there is another matter.

I could choose to use wet clay, with a needle on a revolving disc....It will record vibrations that when played back will represent the sounds made to cause the vibrations.

Its not that technical, the problem is figuring out....if we were able to re-produce the STT what combined to imprint that energy to a "tape"
We know it can be done, we just dont know how it was done!

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 Post subject: Re: Fear of the afterlife
PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 2:00 am 
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Hangman wrote:
I won't waste my time with someone so ignorant. Not fair on the others here who do appreciate independent thought. I suggest you may prefer to just skip and ignore my posts in future if you're incapable of following a conversation without believing it to be personal.

You may want to look up arrogant and egotistical in a decent dictionary. I've deliberately chosen some provocative wording but those don't apply THIS TIME. LMAO


Ignorant? How am I ignorant?

I don't mind people having their say at all Iain. The problem I do have is jumped up little fuckers like you coming on here and thinking they know it all, lash at peoples views - then stand there and not take any criticisms for it. There's a way in which you can get a point across without being a complete "tool" (you won't find the correct meaning for that in any dictionary i am afraid) but I do hope you understand what I mean by it!!

Come on then little Lord Fauntleroy, Keep showing this superior "intelligence" you claim to be gifted with.. When all you've proved to me that you are an arrogant little man!

You've probably been sitting waiting for me to come back on the thread too, why? Because this thread will control your very mind until YOU (yes it's all about YOU) think you have won your point!!


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 Post subject: Re: Fear of the afterlife
PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 2:05 am 
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Nice profile pic by the way Iain :mrgreen:


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