It is currently Thu Oct 19, 2017 6:57 pm



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 58 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Fear of the afterlife
PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 11:05 am 
Offline
The Ferryman
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2007 12:31 pm
Posts: 10887
Location: Stockton-on-Tees
When Richard Felix gave his talk at Preston Hall, he had a theory that the reason that you got a lot more ghosts from periods such as the Elizabethan times as opposed to modern day ghosts, was that religion was much more feared then than it is today, and that anyone who had 'sinned' in their earthly lives would be less inclined to pass over and meet their maker to be judged.

Does anyone have any views on this theory?

_________________
Northern Ghost Investigations -
Messing around with things we don't understand since 2005


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Fear of the afterlife
PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 11:53 am 
Offline
Underworld Minion
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 3:34 pm
Posts: 9324
I know someone with very very strong views on this hehehehehehehe!

What about religions/cultures who dont share these views,Jews dont believe in the afterlife as such yet they are linked to Cliffords Tower at York.........

It seems Mr Felix has some unclear/vague 'facts' and assumptions regarding history/religion in how he presented this at the first P Hall.

To me it just highlights how this is used as a fear tool for manipulation, which it is anyway, so the facts, figures and accuracies of this float right above my pretty little head hehehehehe!!!

From a totally humanistic logical approach using that as the only basis for this then it makes absolute sense in the fact that if you were frightened to cross over because you had been socially conditioned to believe this to be the case then yeah, perfect sense!Add in historical/religious delving and it clouds, add in common sense and it 'clouds' even further.

Many reasons why if that could be the case, however his presentations of this and the fact that he scattered his presentation of this with some 'unclear factual' type areas leaves it open to big query by people who are well studied in certain areas............

_________________
Why is it I smell shit everytime you speak.....


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Fear of the afterlife
PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 11:59 am 
Offline
The Ferryman
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2007 12:31 pm
Posts: 10887
Location: Stockton-on-Tees
It is not something that I agree with either. Even if people aren't as religious nowadays they would still think twice about crossing over if they were confronted with it. If a bloke dies who had been a twat all his life and but is not religious in any way. When he is confronted with a tunnel of light (or whatever) and it suddenly dawns on him that there is an afterlife, wouldn't he too have second thoughts?

I think that the theory is weak.

_________________
Northern Ghost Investigations -
Messing around with things we don't understand since 2005


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Fear of the afterlife
PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 1:53 am 
Offline
Elite Investigator

Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2009 11:15 pm
Posts: 902
Richard Felix made a lot of sense to me - however I agree with Mark that those theories won't be "the be all and end all" as to why people choose not to cross- over. It is important to remember that "what we know, is all we know" - it's human nature to be uncompromising with change - so why would it be any different after our bodies burn out and our spirit continues to thrive? Presuming it transcends with our character intact - this could certainly be a valid point! This brings me to conclude, that the spiritual understanding within ourselves has all but diminished (or at least remains dormant) - possibly due to the cultural evolution of our modern ways, therefore we have a "fear" of the afterlife, rather than an understanding.


I hope that makes some sense :lol:

Peace J


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Fear of the afterlife
PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 4:33 pm 
Offline
Underworld Minion
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 3:34 pm
Posts: 9324
think so!!!

'fear'...........I'll say no more.

fuck the ghosts fuck the ufo's fuck the spirits fuck the jesus's fuck the buddhas fuck nessie fuck captain adama,kirk,spock fuck demons fuck gods fuck all of it its all whatever it is and whatever we want it to be to us.

So.......why do we 'choose' this 'reality'...........whats our 'investment/motivation'?

_________________
Why is it I smell shit everytime you speak.....


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Fear of the afterlife
PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 6:37 pm 
Offline
Elite Investigator

Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2009 11:15 pm
Posts: 902
I'll tell you why: because a massive portion of the human race are "sheep" itr's as simple as that in my opinion! :wink:


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Fear of the afterlife
PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 11:50 am 
Offline
The Ferryman
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 09, 2006 10:28 pm
Posts: 10488
Ahhh .. I'll ask before Claire does :

Why are they 'sheep'? Why have they chosen to be 'sheep'? What do they gain from being 'sheep'?

_________________
Northern Ghost Investigations
Latest blatant plug for some stuff that I'm in the middle of!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Fear of the afterlife
PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 4:17 pm 
Offline
Elite Investigator

Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2009 11:15 pm
Posts: 902
I don't know mate?? Why?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Fear of the afterlife
PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 6:40 pm 
Offline
A Stiff
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2009 6:38 pm
Posts: 1323
Location: Trimdon, East Coast Durham
Hmm perhaps the afterlife isnt as nice as we are lead to believe? Perhaps the reason more and more paranormal groups find more activity as that more spirits dont want to pass over?

_________________
Do I look like the dead scare me?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Fear of the afterlife
PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 8:29 pm 
Offline
Someone Strange
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2009 4:31 pm
Posts: 90
...maybe having all the paranormal groups about is too enticing and it's more 'fun' to play with them than do whatever else?

Mr Felix is seriously flawed in his arguments. It's a nice bit of bunkum for his talks but has no serious credibility. With Anth on that one.

Do bear in mind that this pet theory of his doesn't marry very well with his theories concerning stone tape or looping ghosts vs less than benign spirits & demons. Of course he can have his opinions just as we all can but just because he managed to get on TV does not give him any increased credibility. Even Jay may have better thought through theories. ;)


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Fear of the afterlife
PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 10:33 am 
Offline
The Ferryman
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2007 12:31 pm
Posts: 10887
Location: Stockton-on-Tees
Even Jay? Now come on, that is stretching credibility a bit too much.

_________________
Northern Ghost Investigations -
Messing around with things we don't understand since 2005


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Fear of the afterlife
PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 12:12 pm 
Offline
The Ferryman
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 09, 2006 10:28 pm
Posts: 10488
Oi!!

:twisted:

Whatever Felix says - or whatever anyone says - comes down to one thing .. opinion .. As I've said numeros times .. Until we have a ghost, King Kong style, in a cage where we can prod, poke, probe and ponder over - then nobody will ever know any theory concerning them .. Religion? EMFs? EVPs? Temperature? Stone Tape?

Its all valid AND its all bollocks until we have said Ghost in a cage or a lab .. If they exist, nobody can give an expert opinion on them - Its all just guesswork and speculation and one persons guess - whether they are a believer or a sceptic, a TV "personality" or a Scientist, Professional Ghost Hunter or plod on the street who's only interest is EastEnders - none of their opinions any more valid than any others.

We can't say their point of view is "right" or their point of view is "flawed" - unless we know something they don't. Do we? Do we know something they don't? No, we're just give our own opinion based on our own understanding of life, the universe and everything.

I've said all along when people ask me about ghosts and what they are or
are not : "I haven't got a fucking clue"

And I don't. None of us do. We can have opinions or our own preferred view of what they are .. but truthfully, none of us are in a position to say "he's right and he's wrong" ..

_________________
Northern Ghost Investigations
Latest blatant plug for some stuff that I'm in the middle of!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Fear of the afterlife
PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 1:03 pm 
Offline
Elite Investigator

Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2009 11:15 pm
Posts: 902
Although Richards theories are his "opinion", they are primarily based on fact! whether his theories are right or not they make sense to me, I'd even say they make more sense than most of the theories I've heard in the past..
I disagree with some of his ideals but in general I have to side with the man

:D


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Fear of the afterlife
PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 1:06 pm 
Offline
The Ferryman
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2007 12:31 pm
Posts: 10887
Location: Stockton-on-Tees
I also think that his theories make sense (not too sure about being based on fact though), and I do like the man. I just wish he didn't make so many contradictory statements.

_________________
Northern Ghost Investigations -
Messing around with things we don't understand since 2005


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Fear of the afterlife
PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 4:17 pm 
Offline
Underworld Minion
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 3:34 pm
Posts: 9324
agree totally with Jay.

does anyone actually believe in the 'afterlife' as a place wherwe we go when we are 'dead'???

_________________
Why is it I smell shit everytime you speak.....


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Fear of the afterlife
PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 5:16 pm 
Offline
Someone Strange
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2009 4:31 pm
Posts: 90
We could and often do go through life just accepting the situation or environment we are in. Often it does not even occur to us that something is even something which can be or is worth questioning let alone take that step.

The problem with theories is that any and all can dream them up. To be valid however they need to be supported by a reasonable degree of evidence and be defendable upon interrogation. Unfortunately many theories put out are not backed up with anything more than very flimsy supporting evidence. Within the paranormal community there is also the much vaunted excuse that 'we don't know everything'. That may be so but to understand anything and make sense of what we experience and can see, measure etc we must use our intelligence and accumulated knowledge.

Definitely keep stretching the boundaries about what could be cause or effect but when something can not be substantiated with enough evidence or serious flaws are evident then it is foolish to fixate upon those. Far better to store them as a ventured possibility but to start looking for other explanations.

The idea of matter never being destroyed and energy being absorbed into surroundings is very appealing on an emotional level but fails miserably when it comes to what is proven and accepted physics. Whether you like it or not most science is factual and supportable even if there are still many gaps yet to be filled. Rather than chasing shadows (pun intended) I would advise people to embrace what we know and work with that. It is impossible to find solutions to anything if you don't know the questions or refuse to accept any of the answers.

If theories such as those Richard espouses interest you please study the science and social histories which relate to them. From even the relatively brief look I took it was clear that there were far too many conflicts to give this sufficient credibility. There are however some very strong associations with the belief systems of several faiths.

We are highly unlikely to get answers that definitively make everything clear and obvious to us and that's part of the fun of this topic but do try to avoid being led to an appealing ideal without checking the wider picture. We often find more answers and solutions from those who disagree with us than those who only agree. That's all of us, me included, by the way. ;)


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Fear of the afterlife
PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 5:17 pm 
Offline
Someone Strange
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2009 4:31 pm
Posts: 90
pollen101 wrote:
agree totally with Jay.

does anyone actually believe in the 'afterlife' as a place wherwe we go when we are 'dead'???



I don't.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Fear of the afterlife
PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 6:27 pm 
Offline
Underworld Minion
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 3:34 pm
Posts: 9324
The art of science is a great thing..........mainstream science is the last great religion of our time (control tool).There are obviously 'crossovers' ,as with all religions,where there is 'sense' in there but padded out with absolute shite to serve some shitty 'grand scheme/system' blah blah blah.

'subjectivity' is often not able to stand up to 'scientific' tests,as are a lot of 'paranormal activity' type thing, mainly I believe because the exepriences described have actually happened,so to 'recreate' something that was not explicable in the first place often can lead to 'natural ''understandable'' ' reasons,but it doesnt mean that its the same thing which has been recreated,or the cause for it, as well as things that are unable to be recreated getting brushed of as 'subjective shite' etc.However people do interpret natural things as 'paranormal' a lot of the time,and its 'thanks (is it hehehe???) to 'mainstream science' for 'enforcing' this for us,so praise Dawkins and all who sail in her halleluhyaaaaaaaaaaaaa man!!!!!!!!!!!

To swap 1 religion for another then to follow that unquestioiningly (although cleverly this is a religion where man is god,and 'questioning' (cough choke splutter hehe) is advocated instead of prayer,both prayer and questioning have thier merits,however look at the bigger picture ,see all for the 'spokes of the wheel' (nicked from Jay,his 'expression') ,but look at the 'wheel' itself, dont get distracted and caught up in the 'spokes'......thinking the individual 'spoke' is the 'wheel'.........

fuck, I've forgotton what I;m on about now, thats my 'sermon' over for the day anyway hehehehe!!!

I didnt catch Richards talk this time,did he say the same stuff he usually says?
I'm partly with Hangedman here,look especially at the social and actual historical (cough....)'facts'(.......choke splutter) as we are 'told them' and it seems that some of what Richard says doesnt stand up exactly,although whats far more interesting is his 'motivation/investement' if he truly genuinely believes these,as it is with all peoples 'beliefs'.

'answers'.....hmmm............do 'more questions' count as an answer????

_________________
Why is it I smell shit everytime you speak.....


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Fear of the afterlife
PostPosted: Sat Dec 05, 2009 5:52 pm 
Offline
Someone Strange
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2009 4:31 pm
Posts: 90
Find a dictionary Claire. Science and religion are not the same. Both can be used to influence or even exploit others but the workings and the philosophies of each are very different beasts.

Yes, Richard did his usual spiel. Entertaining but but lacking in substance no matter how hard he may believe what he states.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Fear of the afterlife
PostPosted: Sat Dec 05, 2009 6:13 pm 
Offline
The Ferryman
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 09, 2006 10:28 pm
Posts: 10488
quick post from my mam & dads ..

A number of people mis-understand the usage of "science = religion" when its said ..

Nobody is saying the methods / philosphies / conclusions are the same thing .. but the reason for both is the same : to control (and limit) the mind and to put the power of information into the hands of a select few (professors / priests) who use that information over /against the masses.

Just like in days gone by - you couldn't question the Word of the Priest (whether in ages gone or to relatively recently) - today, you can't question the Word of the scientist ('he's got an 'ology' you know!) - If you aren't an interlectual equal with more letters after your name than Him or Her - then you're opinion means jack-shit.

And those scientists use their information (use the Word of God) to manipulate (usually with a politicians hand up their ass) the people into toeing the line and doing what the politician wants - you just have to look at the latest "Climategate" scandal to see an example of this (scientists fudging the numbers to make us believe in a newly created branch of the 'religion' - Man Made Global Warming).

Both science and religion are used for the same purpose : to manipulate the masses.

Hence - Science = Religion. And Thou Shoulds't Not Question Either.

One of the old Religious doctrines :

If you have faith, you have no reason to question
If you don't have faith, you have no right to question

Seriously, is that any different when applied to Science?

_________________
Northern Ghost Investigations
Latest blatant plug for some stuff that I'm in the middle of!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Fear of the afterlife
PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 4:15 am 
Offline
Someone Strange
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2009 4:31 pm
Posts: 90
What total hogwash.

So you don't benefit from any scientific or medical (that's scientific too) developments. "They" are all out to get "us"?
Absolute rubbish.

Science and scientific method is a process, it is not a thing or entity in of itself. Without science, as with (and this chokes me because I hate the subject, being bad at it) mathematics, we'd all be running around banging rocks still.

You'll do no service but a huge disservice to paranormal study if you want to ally with the conspiracy theorists. There is corruption and varying degrees of honesty in all spheres of life and I don't discount some scientists in amidst that but you simply can't make the claim that science is some evil and to be totally mistrusted and expect people to take your views at all seriously.

If you want to challenge a theory or a stance go out and collect the evidence to support your counter-argument. Be prepared, however, to present it it a rational and organised manner. Conjecture, whimsy and wishful thinking are not sufficient.

Your ignorance of science and scientists is appalling and very worrying. Do you not know that the principle of science other than to extend knowledge is to come up with theories - however extreme - and then TEST them. Not just by finding evidence to support them but also to try and disprove them. That is real research. It is then set out before others who have invested a huge amount of time learning about particular subjects for them to research and tear into. Peer review. Those same publications are usually available to the public if you want to read them and there is nothing stopping you writing to the authors or publications with your own views. If you have something valid to say you'll get heard. You may also get laughed at; as are many scientists who have put forward their thoughts and observations. It is not a perfect system. However, it is one that has foundation and a proven pedigree.

I find it very interesting that some within the ghost hunting genre are so anti-science but are also more than happy to latch on to scientific systems or ideas which just so happen to match what they want to hear. Such selectivity has no place if you are serious about trying to find answers rather than wasting your time running in circles or just having a laugh. If that's what you want to do, fine. I certainly have no problem with that but you are incredibly foolish to ignore accumulated knowledge, scientific methodology and believe there is some dastardly plan afoot to use 'such evils' to suppress the masses.

Religion has and continues to do just that in many corners of our planet and there is plenty of proof about to confirm that. I don't see the same of scientific approach. No doubt because science is not an organisation; it's a process, a way of recording and developing the way we can all think about what we experience, know or conjecture may be possibilities.

There will be political influence in some areas just as there will be commercial pressures. Finance and social interests being weighed against decisions as to what may or may not be actioned. That is an argument you can take up against society (of which we are all part). Trying to blame a process because it just happens to by and large not accept your views because you haven't thought them through, tested them etc is flawed and blinkered thinking.

You may have some of the answers, I'm not suggesting that some of your ideas are wrong (or that some conventionally accepted ideas are necessarily right) as we all have to be able to alter out views as new evidence is presented. The stumbling block for you seems to be that you can't or won't accept that simply having an idea is not as valid as subjecting it to scientific process. There is a horrendous smell within some areas of academia with an almost incestuous attitude towards promoting only from within like-minded groups which can and does lead to closed avenues of thinking, however, that snobbishness very rarely extends to those beyond the administration actually working on projects.

Jay - You are a very intelligent bloke and no doubt you have reason to believe what you do but I very much recommend that if you really want to learn about the paranormal you go and speak to some staff within one or more of th local Universities. Not necessarily about the specific subject (although you may find yourself surprised at how many different departments may be able to help you not just within science) but about the scientific method (used in law and many other facets of our lives), aims and it's administration.

Not a personal attack on Jay or Claire or even anyone else who shares their beliefs but it's too easy for people to just nod and agree without actually spending time to think about what they may be agreeing to. I know as I do it myself, we all do.

I'm not here to fight ANY corner. I'm not interested enough. So I won't get into any debate over this but I would be interested in hearing what evidence, rather than hearsay, is behind the belief that science is not a process but a 'means to control the masses'.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Fear of the afterlife
PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 9:41 am 
Offline
The Ferryman
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 09, 2006 10:28 pm
Posts: 10488
Iain. Missed. Point. Completely.

Religion is no bad thing. In and of itself. If people want to believe that a God or a big Pink Fairy created life, the universe and everything in it, then thats entirely up to them. However, when that religion is taken control of by an "elite" and used to manipulate how people live their lives - then, it becomes a problem.

Science, has and will continue to, fall into the same general catagory. Its not about Conspiracies - its a simple consequence of the human condition. One man will always want power over another. When religion ruled the roost, that "man" was the Priesthood who had the "ear of God". This Is The Word - Follow It Or Be Cast Out. Even Kings would bow to it. Knowledge, is afterall, power.

Science uses the same process. Look back throughout history - who have always been the Strongest Nations? Those who are the most Technologically ("scientifically") Advanced. And would they share that technology? No. They'd keep it themselves and everyone else can go and swivel. Why does America today spend billions on the development of secret aircraft that nobody knows about until its dropping bombs on Baghdad? Because they want an advantage over others. That same process happens within society and on a smaller scale too.

Iain. I know all about Scientific method - thats the background I come from. The method isn't the issue and never has been with me. Its the application of that method by those that use it.

With the best will and intention in the world - we can't stop being the one thing that we all are : human. Every single one of us has faults. And one of those faults is to try and make the world in our own image. As such, even unconsciously, we manipulate and cherry pick the information we have coming in to fit our own perception. We all do it. We can't help ourselves from doing it. And thats where the "method" falls down on that level - everything we do is influenced by our own ("own" being small-scale individuals to large scale species) perception of what we think rather than what is. Even if its just minute - then its too much and the method and results aren't true or unshakable any more. The Butterfly Effect takes hold and that minute becomes huge and we're not even aware of it.

Now thats just speaking from a honest and good point of view. We may think we're doing things correctly, but we're not. Man Made Global Warming is a prime example of this. 20 odd years ago the big fear was that a Global Cooling was on the cards - then some clever sod who disagreed with the Cooling idea found something in the data that "proved" that Global Cooling wasn't coming, but Global Warming was. And hey, the idea got out there - others who disagreed, looked at the data and saw the same thing - and as the snowball began to grow and the idea that "global warming" was coming began to seep into peoples consciousness. All of a sudden new data and "proof" turned up all over and the bandwagon got rolling.

Given the nature of society today, someone needed to be blamed and someone had to pay. So people began looking for a cause and, ignoring the natural and obvious answers, they cherry picked out the variable that never existed 800,000 years ago .. MAN! We got the blame despite producing a miniscule amount of CO2 compared to whats produced in nature (somehow, our 4x4s are also heating up every planet in the Solar System too ... go figure). But, the meme was set - we're to blame and we'll bloody well pay for it ..

.. until a hacker hacks into emails and finds that the pre-emminent scientists involved in the UK Climate field - those stirling servants of the Scientific Method which is All Good And Mighty And We Should Listen To Their Word - may infact have fudged the numbers, twisted nobs, not given ALL scientific study and data the correct air-time it should have got because they themselves were working to an agenda promoting Global Warming to the masses.

How many other numbers have been fudged to fit an individuals perception? How many others who shared that perception fudged the numbers or overlooked them and eventually won the shouting match? Whether deliberately, or not?

How many scientific discoveries have been "held back" because the discovery didn't fit with an agenda? Hey, Oil is big business and a lot of profit can be made from it - yet, if the same development that took place on Combustion Engines happened on say, Electrical Engines - then we'd all have been driving around in souped up Milk Floats at a fraction of the cost, for the past 40 years - but then again, we then couldn't carry so much blame for Global Warming, I guess.

But that development didn't happen (or if it did, it never really got released) - science, in this case, has been driven by profit. The £££ became more important than the science. Scientists were employed to improve the balance sheet rather than improve our advancement as a race. And the science they produced was designed to manipulate the masses to promote a (profitable) agenda when alternatives existed and we're ignored because those alternatives wouldn't create fat, rich oil barons (nor line up the likes of me and you to pay a bullshit carbon tax to further improve or replace those profits now that the alternatives are being looked at on the back of more bullshit science designed to control the masses).

Its not Conspiracy or the method, Iain, never has been. Its the application of the method by those with vested interests in the results it brings and our own naivity in thinking we get told absolutely everything.

_________________
Northern Ghost Investigations
Latest blatant plug for some stuff that I'm in the middle of!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Fear of the afterlife
PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 1:10 pm 
Offline
Underworld Minion
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 3:34 pm
Posts: 9324
''Iain. Missed. Point. Completely.''

Intentional, or 'blinded by faith' I wonder.....????

Agree totally,and with the rest of what Jays saying.
Find it hard to believe you cant see this hangedman whether you 'believe' it or not.

_________________
Why is it I smell shit everytime you speak.....


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Fear of the afterlife
PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 1:24 pm 
Offline
The Ferryman
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 09, 2006 10:28 pm
Posts: 10488
--------------

To finish off after a little kip after a night freezing my bollocks off on the Yorkshire moors

-----------------

Don't confuse the method with the application - they are 2 different things completely. Ok, maybe it was the wrong choice of words to say that the science / scientist manipulates the people - I meant more along the lines of the people who then use the science to dictate policy (so, politicians / governments etc).

Everything can be (and is) spun so we see things a certain way - it could be Global Warming, it could be our need for oil, it could be the science of intelligence gathering so we end up with dodgy dossiers which lead us into wars ..

The masses of the people won't be bothered to check things out or go out and earn themselves a docrate in Physics & Quantum Mechanics so they can determine whether they are being told the whole truth or not - so a selective usage of data or a conclusion presented out of context is a huge manipulative tool by those who would use it for their own agenda. "It must be true - scientists said so"

And then comes the "worship" of science. Scientists aren't perfect. The have the same faults as you and I - and science has made just as many blunders throughout history as anything else.

Yet we laugh and point at the "primitive" nature of science and those blunders and false assertions that the scientists of the day gave - suddenly believing that everything we say today is 100% correct. Just like they thought in the past. And so we, as mere mortals, worship and never question what we read in a text book. "It must be true - scientists said so"

So in the future will we look back on some of the things which we know today as truth and point and laugh? Who knows? But .. probably.

But today, no - that which sits on the Alter of Science is unquestionable. That is the Word remember! Again :

If you have faith, you have no reason to question
If you don't have faith, you have no right to question

Go back and read what I've said in the origianal post and your (fanatical??? :wink: ) reply in defense of Science - and remember that two line doctrine and ask yourself : Doesn't that apply just as much to science as it does religion?

Again, stop getting bogged down with the details of what I'm saying - Of course Science and Religion are different .. its the philosophical usage and application of each that are nigh on identical : to control what and how we think.

Knowledge ... is ... power.

The question therefore is : Is that knowledge .. and therefore power .. equally shared?

If I have the "knowledge" and you don't .. then I have the power over you. And a man always seeks power and control over the next man. Thats just being human.

_________________
Northern Ghost Investigations
Latest blatant plug for some stuff that I'm in the middle of!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Fear of the afterlife
PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 1:42 pm 
Offline
Underworld Minion
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 3:34 pm
Posts: 9324
''Again, stop getting confused with the details of what I'm saying - Of course Science and Religion are different .. its the philosophical usage and application of each that are nigh on identical : to control what and how we think.''

Again, agreed,this is what I am saying.

Not sure its a 'human' 'genetic' charectoristic and an 'organic' part of our 'original' make up, but through the 'application' of this 'system' I htink it has become deeply 'engrained' in us now.
Hence hangedmans 'reaction' tho this, ie missing the 'point'!

_________________
Why is it I smell shit everytime you speak.....


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 58 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Theme designed by stylerbb.net © 2008
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
All times are UTC [ DST ]