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 Post subject: Re: Hi new here
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 11:12 am 
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Elite Investigator
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It's difficult, because as Anth said, with anxiety and related issues we tend to be more sensitive to things around us, be that noises, movement or hot and cold etc. In my experience, this is part of what is known as hypervigilance, which can affect many areas of our lives.

When it comes to the paranormal, that leaves a big question (and this is my personal opinion) of whether being hypervigilant is a help or a hindrance. In other words, does it make us more sensitive to things that might be of a paranormal nature, or is it leading us to think they are of a paranormal nature, because we feel them and others might not? And by saying that I'm not negating you Venus, I just don't know the answer to that question.

By saying that, I'm not attempting to devalue ANYBODIES experiences, just sharing something I have thought of a lot over the years. I think until we have more knowledge of the paranormal generally, and what that actually is, that question will remain open. And experiences are personal. I have had my own, like others, that people would use logic to give a natural explanation for. That doesn't make them any less real to me, but it does mean that I have to search harder for better evidence that is truly objective, and therein lies the difficulty :D


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 Post subject: Re: Hi new here
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 11:20 am 
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The Ferryman
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There's plenty of evidence to suggest that people suffering with anxiety see and hear things that they may regard as paranormal. It doesn't mean they are losing their minds, but it could just be a symptom of the anxiety. In many cases when a person who has been suffering from stress/anxiety gets help with it such as counselling, it is often found that the 'activity' ceases. You find this a lot with poltergeist cases.

There was also a famous study when a group of paranormal researches apparently 'created' a ghost they called Phillip with their minds who they could interact with. Now whether the 'ghost' was indeed a separate entity or that there was another explanation for what occurred is still open to debate.

Studies show that there are a high proportion of reported 'paranormal' incidents occur when you are falling asleep (hypnogogic state) or just waking up (hypnopompic state). These are often attributed to sleep paralysis and are nothing to worry about. Of course that isn't necessarily the cause for you, but here's some info we've sent to people in the past. It may help.

Sleep Paralysis

Sleep paralysis occurs either when falling asleep, or when awakening. When it occurs upon falling asleep, the person remains aware while the body shuts down for REM sleep, and it is called hypnagogic or predormital sleep paralysis. When it occurs upon awakening, the person becomes aware before the REM cycle is complete, and it is called hypnopompic or postdormital.

The paralysis can last from several seconds to several minutes, with some rare cases being hours, by which the individual may experience panic symptoms.

In addition, the paralysis may be accompanied by terrifying hallucinations (hypnopompic or hypnagogic) and an acute sense of danger. Sleep paralysis is particularly frightening to the individual because of the vividness of such hallucinations. The hallucinatory element to sleep paralysis makes it even more likely that someone will interpret the experience as a dream, since completely fanciful or dream-like objects may appear in the room alongside one's normal vision. Some scientists have proposed this condition as an explanation ghostly encounters.

Some reports read that various factors increase the likelihood of both paralysis and hallucinations. These include:

▪ Sleeping in a face upwards or supine position
▪ Increased stress
▪ Sudden environmental/lifestyle changes
▪ A lucid dream that immediately precedes the episode.
▪ Excessive consumption of alcohol coupled with lack of adequate sleep.

Many perceptions associated with sleep paralysis (visceral buzzing, loud sounds, excited mental state, presences, and the paralysis itself) also constitute a common phase in the early progression of episodes referred to as out of body experiences.

Treatment starts with patient education about sleep stages and the factors mentioned above. It is recommended that patients be evaluated for narcolepsy if symptoms persist.

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 Post subject: Re: Hi new here
PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2012 9:50 pm 
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Someone We Know

Joined: Wed May 30, 2012 8:37 pm
Posts: 38
Yeah I read about ''Phillip'' and often wondered if i'd created (or at least half created) something like that because I could never actually catch it full view. With thinking about these events over and over, wondering what it was I was experiencing, trying to figure it out, I thought maybe I was creating the energy they need to manifest without meaning to?

I understand the hypnogogic and hypnopompic states. But when I experienced something on my back, I was actually lying face down. Not face up.

I don't believe that statement about people who suffer anxiety regarding things they see and hear as being paranormal. What about my friends and family who've seen and heard these things? They don't suffer anxiety. And to be honest, none of this has made me 'nervous' in any way other than the few interactive experiences i've had. Like I say, I don't mind them living alongside me. I just don't want them interfering with us physically. Touching and prodding is fine, but actually pushing and shoving, laying on top of us is not something I want them to do. And to be totally honest, when I first had this happen, I automatically put it down to something medical rather than paranormal. Same with my eyes. I thought immediately there was something wrong with my eyes and had the optician out a few times to make sure there wasn't something medically wrong....once tests were performed and no diagnosis made, that's when I assumed it must be actually happening and not in my mind. See where i'm going? That's why I disagree with the statement about putting things down to paranormal rather than something physically or mentally wrong.

I know you guys are trying to find some rational explanations for some of the things i've experienced over the years but I truly believe not all of it is to do with my environment or my mental state. At one time I would have said it's possible. But with others experiencing these things, I know we can't all be going crackers lol :)


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 Post subject: Re: Hi new here
PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 5:30 pm 
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Venus3k3 wrote:
...Like I say, I don't mind them living alongside me. I just don't want them interfering with us physically. Touching and prodding is fine, but actually pushing and shoving, laying on top of us is not something I want them to do...

...I know you guys are trying to find some rational explanations for some of the things i've experienced over the years but I truly believe not all of it is to do with my environment or my mental state. At one time I would have said it's possible. But with others experiencing these things, I know we can't all be going crackers lol :)...


Based on what you have said Venus, have you thought that maybe it's worth you contacting a spiritualist church to see if they can help in any way? If you are not happy with what is happening (or you think might happen) in your home, and believe it to be spiritual in nature, then that would be a good first port of call. We can (and have) offer many rational and logical explanations for what you have described, but it does seem that you believe there are other (possibly spiritual) reasons for what is happening, and whilst we are interested in looking for or hearing about any evidence of the paranormal, it does sound like you are unhappy with what you believe to be in your home. Doing something about that, is not an area we can help with. We can investigate, theorise, and give plausible, logical, likely explanations for your experiences, because that is our area of interest and where we can help.

Have you tried asking whatever you believe it to be to leave your home? Some people believe that simply being assertive and asking anything that might be residing there to leave can be effective.

In reality, none of us know what the paranormal is. Yes there are theories and belief systems, but no-one truly knows for sure, or can provide evidence to say with certainty what, if anything it is, even if they say they can.

No-one is saying what is definitely happening, only offering likely explanations, based on what you have told us (and what we have listened to of course). And of course, we are not Ghostbusters who can vacuum a ghost (alleged) away..! :wink: :P

That's why I think that if you are unhappy with what you believe to be happening in your home, it may be worth pursuing some kind of help from a spiritualist church?


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 Post subject: Re: Hi new here
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 9:34 pm 
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Someone We Know

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Been there done that Mark. I contacted a spiritualist church a while back, and they were the ones who told me someone who lived here previously had also contacted them. They had been to the house in the past. So they knew that everything I was describing, had been felt and experienced by other people too. All they offered was 'prayers' and although I don't believe in that sort of thing, the 'spirits' that I believe are here, maybe do. So it would be for their benefit really.

I'm not frightened of whatever it is. I'm confused because some times it feels harmless, and other days it feels like it's out to harm one of us. If that makes sense? I've never felt in any real danger but with pushing and shoving on the stairs, laying on our backs etc, I don't like the physical interaction. I do sometimes worry it might harm us via pushing us down the stairs or tripping us over something but funnily enough we've figured that it seems more active when there's a pregnancy in the family. Twice my daughter in law has been pregnant and it's tried to shove her down the stairs. The first time she actually fell half way down. But this time she grabbed onto both bannisters and saved herself.

I really don't know what I want to do. Am too scared to get someone in to investigate in case the activity escalates and we become 'haunted' and nobody can get rid of it, like you say, as even the vicar was scared to enter my house that time we were getting rife activity. I feel like am on my own here. Like all the 'help' I can get is people taping it or recording, but going home at the end of the day and leaving me to deal with the consequences kwim? I even thought about contacting Alan Robson from Nightowls and asking him to find someone who can take it away. But as you say, nobody can zap it because nobody knows enough about these things in the first place. I do believe that coaxing the spirits to appear, may be the worst thing I could possibly do because that's like inviting them to haunt and scare me.

I'm going to ask my daughter in law and son to stay over one night and see if I can get anything on camera. I don't know if that will prove anything because just like EVPs, everyone can say I made the pics myself or I spoke into the voice recorder....only way to prove it is to have someone else witness it first hand and I've already got witnesses but no physical or recorded proof.

It's frustrating isn't it? I know there are rational explanations for some of the evidence, but I also think there is no rational explanation for a lot of it...

Just for the record, both myself and my son felt something behind us just today. I was lying on the bed (on my stomach) with my feet hanging off the bed and I swear I touched something solid with my feet. But there was nothing behind me. My son felt the same thing ten minutes before me. No cobwebs or items of clothing, nothing behind our feet. All these strange things must add up to one or the other. There's either something here, or we're both suffering from something i've never heard of before lol ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Hi new here
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 9:38 pm 
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Someone We Know

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I just contradicted myself there :lol: I mean, I don't want to 'ask' the spirits to appear for the camera. I'm just going to take snaps and leave a DVR running without telling it we're doing it and see if I can catch something that way. It's still not proof because someone somewhere will shoot photos and EVPs down unless they're actually there to witness it themselves. But anything's worth a try to prove to myself i'm not imagining these things :D


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 Post subject: Re: Hi new here
PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 9:36 am 
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I'm not so sure that even if there was a spirit/ghost there that anything can be done to make them move on.
Just read a book called "true haunting" and that came to the same conclusion, even an exorcism failed.....Although supposedly thats for demons only. The exporcism was filmed for NBC in 1971 theres a vid on youtube of the original broadcast.

So you dont want an investigation, Spiritualists dont seem effective and the local vicar wouldnt enter the house. I have to ask, what can we do to help you?
Without an investigation we can only offer theories, none of which can be based on fact/evidence.
I have to take the standpoint that so far things occur that you attribute to a ghost, but we dont have any evidence that says this is the case.

Its not that I am not beleiving you, but we have to look at it from a different viewpoint. Theres seems to be little we can do to actually help you, especially if you wont let a team investigate.
You could try asking for a house blessing i guess, but that was already refused, try a different vicar/priest is about all I can offer. But if YOU dont beleive in that, whats the point?

EDIT:
I guess you could try smudging with sage.....never done it myself and to be honest I dont see how or why it would work. But its at least something you could try yourself.

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 Post subject: Re: Hi new here
PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 11:52 pm 
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Elite Investigator
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Venus3k3 wrote:
Been there done that Mark. I contacted a spiritualist church a while back, and they were the ones who told me someone who lived here previously had also contacted them. They had been to the house in the past. So they knew that everything I was describing, had been felt and experienced by other people too. All they offered was 'prayers' and although I don't believe in that sort of thing, the 'spirits' that I believe are here, maybe do. So it would be for their benefit really.


Ah right, I did wonder if you had. :)

Well, you can certainly keep posting here to keep us updated and ask more questions which we will always try to answer to the best of our ability. Other than that, collecting evidence (or at least trying) is a good idea too. Keeping a diary is always a good idea, to maybe look for any patterns over time, like certain days, times etc.

Like Anth said, maybe a different priest or vicar is worth a go? It's your call on that obviously. Anyway, hopefully by keeping a diary and trying to capture evidence that will help in some way. In the meantime, living your everyday life as normally as possible in the house is something to consider. So maybe trying to collect evidence only on certain days is worthwhile, so as to make life more normal and let this try and fade a bit into the background. Life is for the living people. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Hi new here
PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 4:01 pm 
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Joined: Thu May 31, 2012 3:40 pm
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Hi Venus

I've made no comments so far about your case, for my own reasons. But I would say the following;

Anth's post a couple back is probably the most sober and honest advice (don't know about the sage thing like!) you're gonna get from an amateur group. What I would not suggest is asking another group or psychic into your home, if indeed this is still ongoing.

You said you might capture something on camera etc, but others may still dismiss it. i would say there is good reason for that in many cases. But that should not dissuade you from trying to capture any activity you can. This can be audio, video,a diary or statements from other people. Over a period of time this could build up a more coherent picture of the activity and may even highlight any patterns to the activity

If you wanted to go down an investigation route, it may even be worth contacting the Society for Psychical Research. With this organisation at least there would be a better chance of you being taken seriously and the case investigated ethically and objectively.

Here is the contact link if you are interested

http://www.spr.ac.uk/main/contact


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