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 Post subject: orbs or dust?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 11:22 am 
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Someone We Know

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Hi all,
I was just thinking.... If on many orb pictures they can be described as dust particles, how come not every picture taken in the same light, temperature etc, has atleast one speck of dust on it?


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 Post subject: Re: orbs or dust?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 11:28 am 
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The reason behind me writing so much about orbs is that I didnt find them that interesting before, I really prefer visual evidence like when I saw a mobile pushed off a fireplace. But since my brother and I have many pics with orbs and many without taken throughout an investigation, I find them fascinating. Alot of photos that are clear are taken literally straight after a photo with loads of orbs on. So I dont know how the dust particles floating about in the air can just suddenly disappear in the same conditions.


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 Post subject: Re: orbs or dust?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 11:34 am 
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The Ferryman
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Well there's actually only a small area where the camera will pick up 'orbs'.

Too close, too far, too high or too low from the lens and 'orbs' will not appear. This is why 'orbs' can appear on one photo and then disappear on the next.

There is a good diagram explaining this here: http://theorbzone.com/explanationorbzone5.htm

'Orbs' are interesting when you first get into them but the more you find out the less impressive they become. Now stuff like the mobile being 'pushed' of the fireplace sounds much more interesting for our point of view.

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 Post subject: Re: orbs or dust?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 12:13 pm 
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Hi lynnnora2,

Please remember we are not saying we are right and you are wrong.
We are just taking the more logical approach to it. Camera manufacturers have investigated orbs, Kodak I beleive produced some great evidence which the scientific description of orbs is based upon.
I dont know where the idea came that orbs were paranormal or indeed spirits travelling. To me that seems like such a crazy idea and must have taken a huge jump in logic to come to.

Colours, lens flare and more can all easily be explained away. Streaks, cigar shaped objects etc are nearly always operater error. Whilst some people do get excited about orbs.....and we have at least one of them in the team, Until theres any evidence of them being paranormal, and I do mean ANY evidence, as an investigator I have to stick with the rational explantion.

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 Post subject: Re: orbs or dust?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 6:56 pm 
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A Ratty-Tap-Tap
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so Anth and Dok, your honest opinion with orbs.. If you seen a picture that has only half an orb on and the rest of it was behind something (ie a chair) would that impress or what??? as though the 'orb' cannot appear fully due to an item in front of it.

Just asking as I am sure there is a picture of something like half an orb.. I am trying to find it from the thousands of pics I have taken over the years

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 Post subject: Re: orbs or dust?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 7:46 pm 
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No it wouldn't impress me Angie, its common for orbs to look like they are behind something too. They aren't though.

I even think its explained on the rob zone too. :)

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 Post subject: Re: orbs or dust?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 10:30 pm 
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A Ratty-Tap-Tap
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>>rolls eyes<< never a winning battle with u and dok, even if we caught a moving light, you would assume it as moving dust or bugs... this battle will never be won :P

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 Post subject: Re: orbs or dust?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 9:36 am 
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Its not a battle.

Orbs have been explained, they can be made to appear, they can be made to not appear.
Theres not a single shred of evidence that suggests they are paranormal.

I cant even find out who came up with the theory that they are spirits. They certainly are not balls of energy, because energy can be measured and tracked. Orbs cannot.

If you would prefer to take some belief without evidence over the evidence provided by camera and film manufacturers, thats your choice. However because I want to find the truth I wont spend time on investigating something that is not paranormal.

Remember our experiment we are going to do, pitting your camera against mine, lets see who captures orbs and who doesnt. :)
I have taken over a thousand pictures on my camera and I think theres an orb on one of them, I was sat in the same room as you, I was sat next to you, you got loads of orbs I got a one.
The difference is the camera. Its a piece of electronics, it cannot be made to be sensative to spirit. It captures what it "sees" in front of it. My camera has a great depth of field than yours and the flash is further away and behind the lens.

Because of that, the area in which orbs can occur is greatly reduced and therefor I capture less of them. I could bring my other camera and I would get orbs and its for exactly the same reason as you capture them.
In fact. What I am going to do, is get you to use my camera and see if you can capture a single orb. Will you accept the challenge?
If you do, I promise I will rethink my stance on the subject. Not saying I will change what I beleive but I will have a re-think. :)

(i'm not having a go, just trying to sneek in this post whilst I am supposed to be working)

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 Post subject: Re: orbs or dust?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 9:56 am 
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I agree, It's not a 'battle', it's about looking at the evidence and making an informed decision rather than following your heart.

Believe me, I would love as much as anyone for 'orbs' to be proved to be connected with spirit, unfortunately it never worked out that way.

It is also interesting that the main supporters of the 'orb' theory are those of a more spiritualist nature, the very people who seemed to dismiss science/technology for years. But when it turns up something (orbs) that supports their belief system they put so much store in them, which is probably the reason they find them so hard to let go on.

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 Post subject: Re: orbs or dust?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 8:18 am 
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being of a Spiritualist nature....ahem

I must say that I really, really, really don't like the whole business with ORBS - out of focus dust et al near the camera lens that so many bang on about without reading any of the experiments that have been conducted...another of these things that appeared from the States ad has caused no end of grief for the serious investigator who is constantly plagued by the phrase " what do you think of my orb photos"...they are spherical and in the plural.

it's like a matter of faith to some...rather like the essential holiday snap or indeed " we paid or money to go on an investigation and we got the proof that we were after" , the groups who advertise, take lost of photos and get pictures of spirit orbs (there are a couple I could name) should be lined up against the wall and shot for defrauding the paying punters,

I had a disagreement with a so called "Team Psychic" a few years back who was claiming to see spirits in photos of orbs...when I countered with the they are dust etc she replied well you're just not psychic enough to see then - which made me chuckle a bit.

I haven't seen a single photo that demonstrates anything other than a blob that has been illuminated by the invariable use of flash or sunlight and blurred through being within the focal length of the lens.

Orbs that some suggest are behind people are actually optical illusions - the blobby thing is still there but the definition of the solid object in focus overides the image on the sensor or the film. see http://www.assap.ac.uk/newsite/htmlfiles/Orbs%20behind.html

there was an interesting experiment with two synchronised cameras - one got an orb - the other didn't - Para Science
http://www.parascience.org.uk/articles/orbkill.htm
Quote:
An experiment considered some time ago by Para Science was the use of stereo (left & right) photography to explore the orb phenomena. Using this technique it should be possible to test the hypothesis that orbs are airborne matter physically close to the taking camera. Thus, if an orb was found to be present on one picture of a stereo pair of pictures taken simultaneously and not present on the other; then the original source of that anomaly must be located within the angle of view formed between the flash and the lens in order that the flash illumination is reflected from the source to cause the bright anomaly to appear on the final picture. Also, such an object appearing on only one of the stereo pictures must be physically close to the camera. It would appear on both of the stereo pictures if it was located more than a short distance from the camera (normally less than 2-3cm)


There was also the device called a DEVA http://www.ghostgadgets.com/_howto/DEVA.html
Quote:
Conceived by Jeff Davis, and designed and built by Erik Smith of the OKCGC and Becky and Ron Cosgrove of the OKCPRG, the DEVA effectively removes ~99% out-of-focus dust contamination from night shot video.
Since creating and using DEVA filters on all video systems, the apparent flying "orb" phenomena literally stopped happening, which leads us to believe that all "orb" phenomena is simply due to close contaminants such as dust.


which really should advertise as kills 99% of all known Orbs dead ? :D (sorry levity creeping in)

I remain firmly convinced that the paranormal cannot be photographed - at least not with an instantaneous light source - see the work of Stanley de Brath on Gustav Geley's experiments back in the 1920s. (de Brath : Psychical research, Science and religion)


HOWEVER


there is a caveat to all this.

there remains the phenomena of the balls of self illuminating matter, usually small in size that hover or whizz off up corridors - or in my experience at Middleham Castle a small blue light *(between ping pong ball and tennis ball) that "skipped" along the now non existent battlement until it vanished into a wall where a door formerly was.


there is no doubting that these are discrete forms doing what they do best, illuminating and whizzing off down dark corridors - clearly not insects (although another Caveat) I have seen some that clearly were on You Tube

what remains the sticking point about them is their exact nature - spirit or just a whizzing ball.....we get back to the "I believe that " or the phrase that really makes me gag " In my Honest Opinion"

oops seem to have got onto my soap box here - getting off now


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 Post subject: Re: orbs or dust?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 4:23 pm 
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interesting links there that I might have to read up on ;) thanks for sharing

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