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 Post subject: ALL Mediums are fakes ....
PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2011 3:58 pm 
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The Ferryman
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What are peoples genuine reactions when they hear a statement such as this? Whether your a medium or not - what do you usually think?

I ask because I saw an interview a couple of days back between Derren Brown and Richard Dawkins on this subject and, naturally, the entirity of the interview was going on about Cold Reading, Barnham Effects etc etc and again, naturally, they were both of the opinion that it was all "fake" even if the mediums involved weren't aware they were partaking in linguistic gymnastics ...... ie, they claimed places such as spiritual churches and development classes teach people the techniquies but don't let on that its cold reading etc and is in fact coming from the Great Beyond.

So how do people respond to statements such as these?

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 Post subject: Re: ALL Mediums are fakes ....
PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2011 4:09 pm 
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Well I can't stand it when people make such general statements. Where is the proof that ALL mediums are fakes? I'm not really into the whole medium thing as you know, but there has been serious studies carried out by proper scientists that have produced some compelling evidence to the existence of Psi.

What I find funny is when you always hear mediums banging on about all the 'fake mediums' out there as if it somehow makes them sound like the real deal, when in reality most of them are doing the same thing.

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 Post subject: Re: ALL Mediums are fakes ....
PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2011 6:29 pm 
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It's funny. I have a real issue with the "new atheists," I know it's a very controversial statement to make, but they seem to be so final; they have such a lack of curiosity. Richard Dawkins, I know for a fact, worships regularly; he goes to the little room in his house with mirrors all over and prays to his God with his eyes open.

Anyway,
1. You could never find conclusive scientific evidence that mediums are fake, Richard Dawkins is a rationalist and rational is whatever he thinks and irrational is whatever he disagrees with. He rarely references science these days with the irony being that he's like the opposite of the "cos God says so" Christian; everything Dawkins thinks is "cos science says so" - and 2. I don't care if all mediums are fake, they entertain people and sometimes bring people comfort. It's cool.

I don't know who Darren Brown but I'd like to ask Dawkins this: if everyone stops believing in God, Ghosts, Mediums, Love, basically if people stop believing in what they can't see (and only see, to the exclusion of all other things, because we feel things we can't see) what sort of Utopia are we going to wake up in? We may as well be fact finding robots.

:D I tend to believe in everything.


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 Post subject: Re: ALL Mediums are fakes ....
PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 9:24 am 
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The Ferryman
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czernin wrote:
:D I tend to believe in everything.

I prefer to say that I believe in the possibility of everything.
Ghosts, UFOs, The Loch Ness Monster and Uri Geller. I'm there! :D

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 Post subject: Re: ALL Mediums are fakes ....
PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 2:27 am 
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I'd say that without studying each case individually, then such a statement is a tad ridiculous.

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 Post subject: Re: ALL Mediums are fakes ....
PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 12:03 pm 
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same old ....... same old. :roll:


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 Post subject: Re: ALL Mediums are fakes ....
PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 12:09 pm 
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Hi Pam. Long time no see, how's things with GHI?
It's not really same old same old, it's all about generating debate and I think Jay was just curious as to peoples views as there are a lot of new people on this forum now.

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 Post subject: Re: ALL Mediums are fakes ....
PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 12:23 pm 
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maybe there is mark, but to me it's the same, and i think your no my answer. 57% of the world belive, and i belive there is more for ufo sightings, it's just people with a nutshell brain that will not belive in anything until they are faced with it


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 Post subject: Re: ALL Mediums are fakes ....
PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 1:21 pm 
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I wouldnt say 57% of people beleive as such.
Its much more likely that 57% are prepared to beleive in the possibility of....

Unfortunately when it comes to a subject like the paranormal theres currently no proof of it existing. Only circumstantial evidence and theories.

Theres so many mediums out there that I honestly beleive that the genuine ones are few and far between. Too many charlatans trying to jump on a bandwagon and milk it for what they can get.

To me thats irresponsible and morally wrong.
Dont get me wrong I want the answers to the questions as much as anyone, but I wont sell my belief to obtain it.

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 Post subject: Re: ALL Mediums are fakes ....
PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 1:22 pm 
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pam-ngi wrote:
57% of the world beliveve


That's a pretty 'exact' figure Pam. Where does it come from?

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 Post subject: Re: ALL Mediums are fakes ....
PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 3:38 pm 
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it has been documented on an data log that is in the british scientific institution i have been there, and seen the records for myself, i cannot copy paste, as its protocol,but the records do record that over 57% have had an experiance of some form, whether touch sence seeing or hearing something that cannot be explained by science. that is only in this country, abroad, it is over 69%.


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 Post subject: Re: ALL Mediums are fakes ....
PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 3:43 pm 
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oh so it's not 57% 'believe', rather 57% have 'experienced for themselves'.
Even if this is the case of the survey though, it can hardly be considered scientific data.

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 Post subject: Re: ALL Mediums are fakes ....
PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 3:50 pm 
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yes mark it can, and no it was not just personal alot of the cases had 3 to four witnesess. the 47% ,the other 10% were personal.all documented, and yes it was very hard for me to understand at first. but when you have figures wrote down in front of you its hard to discredit


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 Post subject: Re: ALL Mediums are fakes ....
PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 3:53 pm 
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so what you are saying is that 47% of the 'worlds population' have witnessed a paranormal event that was corroborated by at least 2 other witnesses?

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 Post subject: Re: ALL Mediums are fakes ....
PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 4:00 pm 
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spot on mark, yes that IS the case.


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 Post subject: Re: ALL Mediums are fakes ....
PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 4:11 pm 
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Don't you think that sounds a little on the high side Pam? That's almost 3.5 BILLION people :shock:

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 Post subject: Re: ALL Mediums are fakes ....
PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 4:22 pm 
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that is so true, billions of people have witnessed paranormal events multipul times.


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 Post subject: Re: ALL Mediums are fakes ....
PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 4:27 pm 
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well having never been to (of even heard of) the 'british scientific institution' and seen the 'evidence' for myself I suppose I'll have to take your word for it.

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 Post subject: Re: ALL Mediums are fakes ....
PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 4:44 pm 
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i rest my case 8)


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 Post subject: Re: ALL Mediums are fakes ....
PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 4:49 pm 
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Damn you're good. :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: ALL Mediums are fakes ....
PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 12:25 pm 
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i know GHI taught me alot, and as far as you calling sensetives gypsy rose lee's i think that its very personal. as seeing there was alot i got right in ngi.


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 Post subject: Re: ALL Mediums are fakes ....
PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 12:27 pm 
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I think Jay was just being humorous when he wrote that. He was just trying to say that we've got enough people of the psychic/sensitive persuasion in NGI at the moment.

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 Post subject: Re: ALL Mediums are fakes ....
PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 12:31 pm 
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well maybe, but i think it is very important that you get a historian, a good sensetive , not LOADS. and a good tec guy


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 Post subject: Re: ALL Mediums are fakes ....
PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 12:34 pm 
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already in the bag Pam. We certainly don't have LOADS of sesitives. The couple we do have are first class that's why we don't need any more.

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 Post subject: Re: ALL Mediums are fakes ....
PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 12:35 pm 
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pam-ngi wrote:
well maybe, but i think it is very important that you get a historian, a good sensetive , not LOADS. and a good tec guy



I'd argue that for investigation we dont need a single sensative, as it happens, we dont need a good sensative. We have two already who surpass anything I have come across before.

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