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Spiritualist Church
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Author:  Beth24 [ Thu Aug 05, 2010 7:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Spiritualist Church

Just wondering if anyone has any experience of visiting them? Good or bad??

P.S hello again everyone :D

Beth x

Author:  doktor_phibes [ Fri Aug 06, 2010 9:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Spiritualist Church

I went once out of curiosity. Everyone was very friendly and I've nothing against the Spiritualist movement per se, but it wasn't really for me. The 'mediums' were incredibly accurate to the people who had been going there for ages and failed to score even a single hit with either myself of my girlfriend. Getting people into development circles seems like big thing too.

Author:  Beth24 [ Fri Aug 06, 2010 7:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Spiritualist Church

hmm that seems to be a general theme with these things...the more you go the more 'hits' you get.
The sceptic in me is.....well sceptical!

Beth x

Author:  aqualung [ Fri Aug 06, 2010 9:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Spiritualist Church

I did some training with a group based in darlington. They seemed more into giving 'more proof of the existence of the soul after passing' even after an 2 hour training session than anything else. They seemed to think that they were clever than they actually were and kept referring to the training class as 'Die hard' and 'SAS', constantly trying to make those involved feel more special than they actually were, seeing that anyone was invited to join these training session after a seminar on a Saturday.
I got a lot out of it and most certainly I had experiences from the tarining that can't be easily explained away, but to be honest I got to the point where I was wondering why I was spending my Monday evenings hanging around with blue rinses already convinced by the phenemenon than questioning it. More than once I got an angry response from them by just being questioning, which unfortunately for me seems a bit 'cultish', but on the whole I quite enjoyed my time with them.
At no point was I ever trained to deceive anyone and I was trained in such a way that it all seemed relevent to what they calim is happening on a spiritual level. Of course you can take two things from that, 1) theres something in it or (2) they are all misled and just believe theres something in it through faith. Most certainly these people were more authentic than the average TV medium that I've seen perform and/ or have met through my work with NGI, but this doesn't mean that they're not all misleading themselves. I feel I saw enough to think theres something in it but still sit on the fence as to what that is.
I can't help but feel that they are still very much a religious group that don't like people asking questions, which never sits well with me, and certainly with one local church I was given the brush off when I went to them for help when my own experiences as a sensitive got too much for me too handle whilst being ill with stress, having been told 'We choose the people we train!' which flies in the face of all the advice that you will read in the back of a Derek Acorah and Gordon Smith book. The churches I've been involved in always seemed very political places too with clicks within them trying to control who was in charge. All except Saltburn which is a very friendly and helpful church. I wish that they were all like this.
I've met some good people though and some folk who I would say were authentic and seen some great people on the rostrum who I can honestly say were not cold reading, but I've also been given ludicrous readings at their services by some terrible mediums. What I can tell you though is that I have also noted that the regular old biddies that make up the congregation get all the readings... make of that what you will. It may well be that they just have more people on the other side. I used to go to Norton church regularly and the same old dear got the same messages week after week after week after week from the same people. This may seem like evidence that there's something in it, but I'm led to believe from a magician that NGI is linked to who 'knows' some of the TV mediums from magic circle meetings, that they all pass notes to one another from the theatre tours that they do, knowing that the same people are going to come to each others shows and they also use audience plants to get the show moving. Theres nothing stopping a bad medium doing the same thing with all the churches with his/ her network. but I can guarantee that this is frowned upon withing the spiritualist movement, but how would they know.

Author:  aqualung [ Fri Aug 06, 2010 9:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Spiritualist Church

I should say that I am currently going through a bad pastch in my personal life and there is a draw to return to the church for some advice... I'm trying to resist the pull cos at the end of the day all religious groups do well out of people whose lives are turned upside down. thats how they recruit.
One last thing I should point out. Without sounding like an intellectual snob, I've seen some people who are revered as being superb by their church do the rostrum as a fill in for a medium who had pulled out and they have not only been incapable of communicating to an audience, they have also had poor vocabulary and so couldn't even find the words to communicate their messages, and were literally lacking in common sense, given bad advice and quite honestly been as thick as shite. God help anyone who takes these peoples advice. Spiritualists may well claim that they are there to give evidence but they also behave like guru's, councilors and wise men. Theres a serious danger in this. They may well be the poorman's therapist but at the end of the day they have no recognised credentials or measured wisdom and so you should be very wary taking their advice on anything that may seriously affect your life in my opinion. One of the worst ones I ever saw worked as a care assistant in a care home... why would anyone ever take her advice on financial affairs, she just wasn't qualified to do it, and yet I'd heard her bumble her way through a reading where she did just that. It makes far more sense to phone up the bank and ask to speak to a financial advisor. :lol:

Author:  Abaddon [ Sat Aug 07, 2010 9:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Spiritualist Church

Tho have to say we have both met some nice spiritualists who have beliefs but dont try and ram them down peoples throats or convert the. I also attended a spiritualist church and I agree with Mark to a certain extent, easier give reading on people you know than to give a cold reading on a stranger.
Think generally people should visit one that they know of and make their own mind up.

Author:  aqualung [ Mon Aug 09, 2010 9:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Spiritualist Church

Abbaddon, I'm quite interested in going to one again do you fancy coming with me. I don't want to appear a sucker but for obvious reasons I could do with some guidance at the moment. Diane mentioned Thursday night to me on Borough road Middlesbrough. She seems to think its better than most... theres apparently young ladies there for a start, which sounds much better than the usual blue rinse brigade that I was accustomed to at other places. Not that I intend to pull, but a younger group of people seems more interesting to me.

Author:  Abaddon [ Tue Aug 10, 2010 6:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Spiritualist Church

yup can do, let me know when

Author:  doktor_phibes [ Tue Aug 10, 2010 9:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Spiritualist Church

They'll have you in a development circle quicker than... a quick thing.

Author:  aqualung [ Tue Aug 10, 2010 12:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Spiritualist Church

No they won't I can't give any more time up for anything else.

Author:  aqualung [ Tue Aug 10, 2010 12:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Spiritualist Church

besides they train people who are committed to the cause... that ain't me.

Author:  Abaddon [ Tue Aug 10, 2010 1:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Spiritualist Church

And I'm not religious

Author:  ghost fox [ Fri Aug 13, 2010 6:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Spiritualist Church

Hi to you, Ghost Fox here a new member, im a professional medium & psychic, dowser & healer, ive been such for 17 yrs +, worked at churches all over the n/east,n/west & borders & i can see why some of your comments were apt? may i answer, firstly spiritualists DO NOT recruit members its very much come & go as you please! you can join but not a lot of those who go do? The reason many older folk get messages is quite simply because being older they can recall more people who have passed into spirit? They can also recall more changes over the years, recall banana shaped prams & ladies who chatted over walls etc., so it means they have more chances of friends & relatives wanting to pass a message? how much can a 20yr old recall? But they do get messages sometimes from long passed relations who watch how they are doing in life? This is why the name may mean nothing until they check with parents afterwards? also SOME mediums feel put off by people saying "NO" ? May i also say that many S N U churches will only allow "CHURCH TRAINED" mediums to work the rostums! this like the "time served" mechanic/plumber/joiner etc., hence the development circles! i am a "Natural Medium" no training? my abilities were released by another medium who saw i had the gift? Some churches & mediums seem to resent "naturals" and my wife now refuses to work churches because of back biting comments [not said to her face] heard later? Please feel free to reply! i have much more to say!! Ghost Fox.

Author:  aqualung [ Sun Aug 15, 2010 5:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Spiritualist Church

Yeah my experiences are very similar to your wives Ghost Fox.
I'm a natural too, one of the postives that I got from going to spiritualist churches was discovering that I wasn't alone in what I experienced and that there were others like me. Being a natural and coming to terms with it can be very hard.
I went to the SNU Church on Thursday in Middlesbrough and was quite suprised by how different it was from my usual experiences of these places but then I'm not a regular attender and not one of the community.
Got to say that the staring I receieved when I walked in was quite daunting and I did feel like getting up and leaving a few times. I wish the medium had been more descriptive when giving me a message too, relying simply on 'He's about the same height as I am' wasn't enough to go on. Especially as I was sitting down when he walked in and then he stood on a platform behind the rostrum. I had no idea how tall he was and he didn't say, so I hadn't much to work on LOL. A description of the persons physicality would have helped.
What I do find as well is that you feel obliged to say 'yes' to everything that they are saying. Its hard actually to fight the urge. I know that this is something that stage magicians and stage hypnotists rely on from our contact in the magic circle. I think my message would certainly have been longer and I would have recieved more information from him if I had agrred to it all. In which case how much of this is a reading and how much of it is a performance technique?
I'm not saying that the guy was a charlatan, what I'm saying is that he may not even be aware that by standing up in front of people, he is automatically in a position of authority and that people feel they need to agree, even if they don't. The same thing happens with school teachers when they ask the class, 'does everyone understand this?' the kids always say yes but of course they are doing that from a peer group pressure and don'[t want to appear stupid. It takes a lot of confidence in that situation to say 'No actually, can you explain it again in a different way so that I can understand.'
I certainly don't want to sound like I'm attacking the spiritualist church as I have had readings of huge poignancy from very good mediums at such places. This doesn't stop me from questioning some of the others that I've had and how 'psychic' some of these people are. In fact I am the first person to question what I'm recieving when we do investigations here at NGI. I think it's important to do so. Most certainly at my training I was not encouraged to ask questions and what they wanted was for me to accept everything they said, right down to them asking me to get hold of some litmus paper from the uni I worked at so that they could use it to test the magnetic properties of some special water that they were going to make at a seminar. I asked them why they wanted litmus paper and what they intended to do with it as surely litmus paper is used to test acidity and not magnetism and also told them that as I was a lecturer in the school of Arts and Humanties and so I had no access to scientific equipment. They weren't happy with me at all for this. they very curtly told me that were 'Just trying to be scientific'. It seemed to me then as it does now, you don't question their authority if you want to get on with them and their methods for testing this stuff is naieve to say the least and totally unacademic. If you do ask questions they take it personally.
Unfortunately as an academic I do have to question, not everything is 'spirit' and yet I know from expereince that there is stuff going on here that I have to accept as being 'spirit' activity.
I'm just wary of groups that aspire to have authority over you and also don't want to be asked questions, even if they are asked in a positive way to aid understanding. As someone who is regularly involved in training people I know that a question is generally asked for this reason and not to undermine the trainer. If they had complete faith in what they did and also believed it all to be true, along with professing that they are correct in their assumptions, why would they ever find someone asking a question problematic?
It just seems to me that they must have been daunted by me for some reason. I'm afraid I'm the kind of person who questions a lot of what I'm told regardless of it being paranormal or not. Even the media put a spin on information at the end of the day. As humans we do question, if we didn't we wouldn't have invented the flint cutting tool let alone the comunication satellite. questioning the world around us is what we do as a species it's not a personal attacke. It was a shame they took it that way.

Author:  Abaddon [ Sun Aug 15, 2010 6:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Spiritualist Church

Ghost Fox , as the other NGI sensitive, have to say that I stand halfway between you position and Johns. I have never sought out anyone to help me develope (which perhaps I should) but can understand why people feel the need to. I agree with you that many spiritualists are happy to help without wanting to recruit new members to their congregation but equally I agree with John in terms of his scepticism. It seems to me that quite a lot of visiting mediums (and indeed mediums in paranormal groups) do spout a lot of open ended garbage which can be interpreted by the receiver however they wish. Also agree that it must be hard to speak in front of others when you have been singled out and reply with a negative; and even if a negative reply is given the implication is that it is the fault of the recipient misunderstanding the information rather than the medium relaying inaccurate or useless advice.

Author:  Anth [ Sun Aug 15, 2010 10:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Spiritualist Church

I'll issue a challenge.

Tell me something about myself.


I await, but wont hold my breathe. :mrgreen:

Author:  Abaddon [ Sun Aug 15, 2010 11:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Spiritualist Church

Ok, Anth..................ur not holding ur breath?

Author:  Anth [ Mon Aug 16, 2010 10:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Spiritualist Church

I know it comes across as provocative......but I sincerely beleive that the vast majority of "messages" are simple guess work.

I'd never claim there is no such thing as psychic ability, but it seems its a bit of a fashion trend right now. I've only ever been convinced of a person with genuine ability once but sadly I didnt approach it with any science and readily admit it could have been simple guess work. It was uncannily accurate though.

I'd love for someone to tell me something, a name, a message. But it doesnt seem to happen. Surely if theres spirit out there that want to communicate then there should be a message for me?

I Also dont go with this mixed message stuff, images etc. I dont get how spirits on a supposedly higher plane cant just say my name is XXXXX and I died in XXXX. why does it have to be so vague and open to interpretation?
Theres does seem to be too many charlatans working out there. people who have as much psychic ability as my goldfish. And then there are those who appear to be genuine, who can give detailed information.

At the last butterwick night at Acklam hall I has a strange experience where I think I did work pyschically. It left me extremely drained for about an hour afterwards, this occured in the big posh room that used to be the gallery and Ian Lawman was there with us.

I do try to remain open minded, but this is a genuione challenge. I would love for someone with a gift to tell me something, that is not already on this board. Theres plenty to tell btw :)

Author:  doktor_phibes [ Mon Aug 16, 2010 10:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Spiritualist Church

ghost fox wrote:
The reason many older folk get messages is quite simply because being older they can recall more people who have passed into spirit? They can also recall more changes over the years, recall banana shaped prams & ladies who chatted over walls etc., so it means they have more chances of friends & relatives wanting to pass a message? how much can a 20yr old recall?


But you could also argue that there is more chance of them relating to something (such as a name) that the 'medium' is talking about if they know more people in spirit even if there is no actual spirit communication. I'm not necessarily disaggreeing with what you are saying, it's just I find it hard to take these things as 'fact' without sufficient proof.

You could say the same thing about many other religions and I would have the same viewpoint.

Author:  aqualung [ Tue Aug 17, 2010 10:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Spiritualist Church

My feelings are that there are good and bad mediums and that's the same in any walk of life; we've all had fantastic teachers and dreadful ones and we've all had superb doctors and others that are always free for an appointment and your last resort for advice, because no one wants to see them as they lack compassion. I think the same can be said for any 'profession'. I can't help but feel that people are drawn to certain professions so that they gain some form of social standing and care less about their work than their title. That can be said for all sorts of folk and not just within religious communities. One of the worst Christian preachers I've ever known was an ego driven social climber, a headmaster and has now been knighted. God knows what for. He always struck me as a person advocating faith and proud of his position rather than doing it from the heart. I've seen this level of 'godliness' only once in a spiritualist church and was horrified by the insincerity of the guy. Off the podium he came to the church in a tracksuit and had a north east accent; on the podium he wore a suit and a giant crucifix, his voice was forced eloquence and his manner was now full of piety and evangelical. He gave the service in his regular church, I hadn't been for a while but was quite taken back by how few people were now in the congregation from my previous visits. Makes me wonder if they hadn't come knowing who was taking the service.
My point is that, like Anth, I think that there are sharks and charlatans out there... and I think that they can damage the reputation of others.
For myself I can tell you that I've spent much of my life trying not to be the person than I am but that has made me unhappy, I've lost friends because of the way I am, it's ruined my relationships and ultimately I'd be happier not being a recipient of random images, names and sensations when I enter an old building. I've come into this to make sense of myself and never to appear special. If anything I try to play down the position and try to normalise it. I think that a lot of the people that I have met through my exploration and work with NGI aren't like this. I can't help but wonder why they started on this path in the first place. The back biting and suspicion I've seen from certain mediums at events has honestly made me question how spiritual some of these people are.
As for the images that people recieve and why there aren't direct messages given I just don't know. I've had names and some definitely work out and yet some just don't. When I've had a full name, both fore name and surname, there has been problems for some reason, like one syllable of the surname being off and so I have to accept it as a failure, whereas others I think would say 'I nearly got it right, therefore I'm psychic.'
Where the information comes from I'm not 100% sure. Why it can't just come more easily in words rather than in images that I then have to try and understand what they mean and make sense of them I don't know either. As far as communication is concerned a better way is surely out there if this is 100% spirit and I can understand why sceptics are the way they are.

Author:  aqualung [ Tue Aug 17, 2010 10:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Spiritualist Church

another observation about the spiritualist churches is class. A sociologist could make some intersting observations here.
The middle class people seem far and few between at the ones I've been too, they stand out because of their clothes and accent and cars they arrive in, the majority of people I've seen there are dressed in tracksuits and trainers. I've not once seen an upper class person at a service.
Has anyone else noticed this?
Its not like going to a village church in Hampshire.
Could there be something in it that relates the kind of beliefs that people have to their aspirations, lifestyles and choices availble to them?
I was at the one on Thursday with a friend of mine whose daughter came with us; nice girl, her partner plays for Celtic. I can't tell you how much she stood out in her ultra fashionable clothes amongst the rest of us. She had a white Range Rover parked outside with a personalised number plate. I noticed everyone else who left the church was walking.
Is there anything in it, I'm sure that a sociologist could make a study out of it.

Author:  ghost fox [ Wed Aug 18, 2010 12:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Spiritualist Church

GHOST FOX First to Aqualung, im surprised you were stared at in church, perhaps strangers were rare, OR maybe it was your age/character etc., churches have their regulars who keep them going? also maybe as one ages they have less to do & its a way meeting & getting out? Perhaps the medium could not see the spirit person too well? he Should have at least got some reason WHY the person was wanted to be mentioned? He should at least offer an explanation as to why he found communication difficult? POWER ! ive never thought of having power from the rostrum BUT have been told often "its YOUR service" meaning its up to me how i conduct it? giving messages is not always the same for each person as you may hear a voice in ones ear OR usually ones head. Sometimes you just "sense" it? im often shown places, buildings, objects, furniture, clothes, animals from years ago often? i then have to go where i hope im directed OR if not then ask it openly? i must then work out why im being shown pictures rather than be given names? its hard work & tests ones skills as a good medium? i dont think also the regulars are afraid to say no - only the visitors? Mediumship is about saying the first name or thing that comes to mind - thats how it works really? one simply has to pray its from spirit? obviously at times its so spot on accurate it can only be direct from spirit? like the time i got Tramcars on Scotswood Rd., the driver & clippy were man & wife - the woman said Yes it was her parents AND their run was Scotswood Rd.,? the woman was a total stranger to me! BUT its hard to give a message when you dont have one BUT you have to?? this is when perhaps people cry FAKE? NGI & Titmus paper??? this is what i wonder at about the ethics of Scientific investigators? Science still cant explain the common ITCH?? BUT have they PROVED it exists?? Has science discovered how a womans mind works yet? A person MUST ALWAYS ASK QUESTIONS! those who do not run the risk of not being suitable for psychic circles!!!! AND its true, its NOT for everyone! a person MUST be 100% sane as far as can be determined? With ghost hunters, when is enough enough? its been studdied sinse the FOX Sisters? And Sherlock Homes couldnt solve it? But i think the difference between perhaps NGI & mediums or psychics is that they are trying to Prove ghostly things exist for whatever reason BUT psychics already KNOW they do!

Author:  ghost fox [ Wed Aug 18, 2010 12:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Spiritualist Church

GHOST FOX.. moving onto gadgets, i knew the the electronics people would Jump on the bandwagon, just how much meters etc., are supposed to detect is as far as im concerned is debateable? the drop in temperature YES its common so fair enough, But as a spirit can glide or walk through a wall how much is this likely to affect the air movement when the wall poses no problems to them? i can also say i consider the film ghost to be close to the real thing & any ghost buster who hasnt seen the film should be ashamed of themselves? We already know very well a spirit can throw things & touch you! its well enough documented & filmed too, the chalk/talc is a good thing with objects but no use on its own as spirit wont disturb it Unless you ask to be given a message or sign (but one must ask) cameras of course are vital for evidence (cine) but i detest digital ! once you know HOW digital works you will realise how inaccurate it can be? FILM is the only reliable format! Especially infra red! digital is by & large the poor substitute! but the snag of course is film cossts more and you have to wait to see the results? My argument has always been WHY do people Insist on conducting investigations in the dark?? its GOT to be for effect only? lets face it when a person (not a ghost hunter) sees a spirit its in LIGHT otherwise it would not have been seen? SO you dont need darkness!! this to me is for the thrill seekers, celebrities, the TV psychics who make money from it? it looks good & its a good laugh darling? ive seen MANY ghosts AND on more than one occassion saw someone i knew & talked to them! this on one occassion was a saturday summers afternoon in very bright sunshine in my kitchen! i have had many more sights outside in broad daylight! I do wonder if the now very popular GHOST groups are a new hobby to go with our train spotters,bird watchers,bus spotters etc.,? it seems whilst its stated they are NONE proffit making these investigations seem to cost a lot of money? who buys the tech gear? id love to go along to some of these places but not to thrill or pay £30 to £50! im retired so i guess its for those with means? i have transport but my investigating concerns talking with a spirit to see why they are there & if i can help in any way? (i NEVER) ask them to go to the light or leave! its their choice to spook if they choose to? (they were there before todays owners) there were no ghost groups 20 - 30 yrs ago just psychic college MECCA of spiritualists? Evette Fielding has a lot to answer for?? although we were on TV a couple of times once before her! (not of our making however) but with the same subject! does anyone remember Stephen O,Brien? or LATE & LIVE Tyne Tees TV? 80s 90s? i dont mean at all to undermine these so - called prof investigators BUT why do they do it? we have scores of good mediums never seen or heard of by the media!Ive never wrote a book, ive never toured theatres up n down the country, never met Diana, or wanted to be famous? in fact to do a Real investigation its best done with 2 or 3 people at most! Spirits are REAL people not THINGS! & it seems this is often overlooked satisfying egos?? spirit can see ALL thats going on!

Author:  Abaddon [ Wed Aug 18, 2010 12:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Spiritualist Church

Have to say that I dont do the medium thing , Im more of an empath and pick up on feelings and energies rather than getting pictures and names or speech. I also occasionally get physical sensations relating to whomever is around at the time. Think the issue is as you have said its about how you perceive the investigatoin and its purpose
Is it about defining IF anything is there and WHETHER it is paranormal or is it about proving that whatever is there or happening IS paranormal?
And agreee with your points that too many groups merely want to accept without questioning or go into a situation with a conclusion already in mind,.

Author:  ghost fox [ Wed Aug 18, 2010 1:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Spiritualist Church

GHOST FOX, Abaddon - yes indeed i agree with you, some trained mediums spout a bit of garbage? i put it down to their training & maybe not asking questions? we should all study & have our own conclusions/beliefs! Best way for you to learn mediumship - spend one hour in my company! no charge but a pear cider or a capucnno wouldnt go amiss? But be warned those nice smiling committee ladies & blue rince old dears can be more dangerous than the shark in Jaws?? but as you would soon learn when passing advice to someone its not the "Mediums" advice but whoever it is from spirit Telling them what to say!!! i was once given a plumbing solution from spirit which was dead right! (my dad was a plumber but not me) so one does not need to be a banker to pass on advice! im sure we would make an exellent team?? You, Aqua , the Dok & us? Yeah??

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