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 Post subject: Re: Spiritualist Church
PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 2:29 pm 
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A Stiff

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So i noticed,on the other hand iv'e never been away. ;)

Ghosts don't exist so i fear you will be waiting a long time. :lol:

However spiritual/Earth energy that manifests itself as orb related phenomena and a myriad of other energy forms does and that includes interdimensional beings and Angels/Demons and great aunt fanny etc etc.

Don't look for Ghosts look for energy signatures. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Spiritualist Church
PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 2:37 pm 
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well that why I said 'ghost' in inverted commas.

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 Post subject: Re: Spiritualist Church
PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2010 9:29 pm 
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Someone Strange

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so i suppose earth energy can grip you by throat leaving the finger marks?? Perhaps levitate above the bed? of course ghosts dont exist - until you meet one! but then that would just be your mind playing tricks - because who would believe you anyway? SO why waste valueable time investigating places where people let their imaginations play tricks on them when its certain its all crap??


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 Post subject: Re: Spiritualist Church
PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 12:22 am 
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Orbione kenobie wrote:

Ghosts don't exist so i fear you will be waiting a long time. :lol:




Amazing comment from a person with such strong belief in energies.
I wont bait you any more about orbs, we all know we see things very differently there.

Anyway good to have you back :)

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 Post subject: Re: Spiritualist Church
PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 7:06 am 
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A Stiff

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Your both confusing ghosts with spirits,the former is just a word that people use that encompasses far too many types of paranormal events without people looking deeper into the facts of the matter at hand , the latter are very real. :idea:

Do i beleive in ghosts.. no :|
Do i believe in spirit.. yes :D

They are not the same thing.

@Ghost-fox no need to explain about spirits,iv'e come across a great many in my 20+ years as a Spiritualist both good and bad ones that have also left claw marks on me on a number of occasions,the last time was very recently,oh and btw i'm on your side as i have a house full of them who regularly make their presence known/felt. :wink:

@Anth i fully stand behind my investigations concerning the Orb/Spirit phenomena i'd like to see anyone reputable try to prove my captures as fake/forgery,i don't deal in dishonesty as far as my work with spirit goes i know there is compensation/retribution at the end game,as for yourself you can believe what you like. :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Spiritualist Church
PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 12:50 pm 
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Orbione kenobie wrote:
@Anth i fully stand behind my investigations concerning the Orb/Spirit phenomena i'd like to see anyone reputable try to prove my captures as fake/forgery,i don't deal in dishonesty as far as my work with spirit goes i know there is compensation/retribution at the end game,as for yourself you can believe what you like. :wink:


Its not about fake or forgery. Its about belief.
What you chose to believe they are and what I chose to believe they are.

I come from a very scientific background, even though I love the science theory, astro physics etc. I just dont subscribe to the same train of thought as you do about these anomalies on photographs. I already explained why I believe them to be a limitation in camera technology.
And although i often say Dust, its not just dust.....but as far as I can tell or believe at this time, its not spirits either.

Dont get me wrong, I am prepared to re-asses what I think, but right now theres nothing in the way of evidence to suggest I need a change of thought.

I would be interested to see if my DSLR captured the same orbs as your camera does. I am sure it would be possible to arrange an experiment that will give differing results of the same picture.
My theory is that your camera will produce the orb and mine wont.

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 Post subject: Re: Spiritualist Church
PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 11:27 pm 
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oh GREAT i love a good discussion, now as well as being a pro spirit/psychic/medium/future seeer & investigator i have been a professional photographer for over 40 yrs, weddings & speedway! So my dear Anth i do a BIT ABOUT PHOTOGRAPHY? can you explain how a photo sensor gathers its info for the final printed picture?? (digital that is) because its quite different to that of film!! its ods on a film or even a second digital camera wont capture the orb?? BUT its quite possible a film may capture a spirit/ghostly image when a digital one does not! The point is it doesbt prove either camera is faulty or telling lies?? I cant tell you Orbs are dust or spirit - at this point in time NOBODY knows! But its worth remembering that when we go looking for things that go bump in the night (other than NGI members looking for a torch) that YOU are being watched by unseen eye,s!! So all the gadgets being set up are well observed ! How would YOU react if in spirit watching all these people trying their best to get you on film or tape etc., just think about this without the cynical/scientific mind? its wise not to believe all you hear BUT do you believe man has walked on the moon??? pictures can be faked? do you even know i exist? you,ve not met me??


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 Post subject: Re: Spiritualist Church
PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 11:51 pm 
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People like this are indeed watching what we do.. :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5EfmSkCUzEU

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 Post subject: Re: Spiritualist Church
PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 8:20 am 
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ghost fox wrote:
oh GREAT i love a good discussion, now as well as being a pro spirit/psychic/medium/future seeer & investigator i have been a professional photographer for over 40 yrs, weddings & speedway! So my dear Anth i do a BIT ABOUT PHOTOGRAPHY? can you explain how a photo sensor gathers its info for the final printed picture?? (digital that is) because its quite different to that of film!! its ods on a film or even a second digital camera wont capture the orb?? BUT its quite possible a film may capture a spirit/ghostly image when a digital one does not! The point is it doesbt prove either camera is faulty or telling lies?? I cant tell you Orbs are dust or spirit - at this point in time NOBODY knows! But its worth remembering that when we go looking for things that go bump in the night (other than NGI members looking for a torch) that YOU are being watched by unseen eye,s!! So all the gadgets being set up are well observed ! How would YOU react if in spirit watching all these people trying their best to get you on film or tape etc., just think about this without the cynical/scientific mind? its wise not to believe all you hear BUT do you believe man has walked on the moon??? pictures can be faked? do you even know i exist? you,ve not met me??



I never said it was a fault with the camera. Its a limitation of technology.
Orbs are merely "circles of confusion" . This leads to Orb Zone theory.....an explanation used by camera manufacturers. Basically an Orb is a circle of confusion, an out of focus highlight.

So, what is a circle of confusion?
It is the smallest detail that a lens can resolve. When it is projected onto a film or sensor chip it appears as a tiny circular dot. These dots are deliberately made small enough so that people cannot see them as individual dots. Instead the picture appears as continuous shapes, rather than thousands of dots. It is a bit like the way a TV picture is made up of many lines that you can see if you look closely enough. Note, however, that circles of confusion are not the same as pixels!

When an object in a photo is out of focus, its circles of confusion expand to appear as circles . The larger the circle, the fainter it is, because the light is more spread out. Eventually, when the circle becomes too large, it is no longer visible at all. This places a limit on the largest 'orb' you can see in a photo. This is why you never see orbs over about one tenth of a frame size. If orbs were real objects 'out there', you would not expect them to have such a limit on their size in a photo.

A crucial question is - why did orbs suddenly appear when digital cameras arrived?
The sensor chips in digital cameras are almost all physically smaller than the size of a 35mm film frame (most are less than half the size and decreasing). This meant that wider-angle lenses were needed for digital cameras so they could show the same area of view in a frame as a 35mm film cameras (otherwise digital cameras would have shown a much smaller area of view). These wider-angled lenses had a much greater depth of field. Depth of field is the area in front of a camera where objects are in focus. If objects are too close to the lens (and sometimes when they are too far away) they will be out of focus and break up into circles of confusion . The increased depth of field in digital cameras meant that the closest distance where objects were in focus came much nearer to the camera. It also brought the area that was just out of focus much closer. Importantly, it brought these two zones much closer to the flash unit. In many digital cameras this created an Orb Zone.

Of course, if anyone has a picture of an orb that was behind an object in a picture, then Orb Zone theory could not apply....it would be a physical impossibility to be out of focus and behind somethig that is in focus.

Orbs can be captured on none digital film cameras, but you will find they are much rarer. This is because of the difference in technology yet the out of focus theory can still be applied.

Ask yourself another question, is it more likely to be out of focus dust/insects/reflections or a spirit energy.
Given that no one can yet prove spirits exist, which is indeed more likely?

Do I beleive man has walked on the moon? Yes I do. I watched programs saying the landings were faked and I just didnt buy it. I also understand that images have been captured that show debris left over on the moon surface, it would seem such a waste of energy to send a machine there in the 1960's and not send a man or men with it. Also, if they faked it and it got out, the embarrasment would have been greater than if they simply failed.

Do I know you exist? interesting question....could be seen in a few different ways. Perhaps do I know you are living would be a more pertinent question. The answer is no, you could be a computer program but theres an intelligence in your posts that I would find difficult to beleive came from a computer program.
If you were a spirit and communicating on here, it would signal that you were ready to prove your existance beyond doubt.....so I wlecome you to do just that ;)
That leaves that you are indeed alive and human as your level of response and obvious intelligence show.

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 Post subject: Re: Spiritualist Church
PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 4:13 pm 
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It's a funny old world, gotta laugh.. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Spiritualist Church
PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 9:38 pm 
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Exellent response! i enjoyed the theory very much! only one minor point is as far as im aware at least the digital sensor is only capable of recording appx 75% of the image seen in the viewfinder of the camera, its true the wide angle theory is there, however to explain it another way is "to compensate for the missing pixles the sensor <duplicates> the nearest colour etc., next to it so if a particle of dust were to be captured OR a pinpiont of light then this would be magnified across the frame until 100% of the frame is full?" the pixles of course are tiny squares instead of tiny spots? BUT i believe the spots win every time! (ever seen what happens to the TV picture when the digital signal has a problem)? masses of mulchie squares! terestial just hissed a bit you didnt loose the picture? Its the same with film v digital!!! minus the hiss if its a 35mm still camera? In the case of Infra Red film v night vision is a little more tricky to explain? But im willing to guess that film structure is the same as normal film except for its super sensitivity? Correct me if im wrong BUT has spirit ever been captured using the modern night vision tecnique? i know for sure spirit HAS been photographed using infra red! A man who pushed things off shelves during the night at a toy warehouse allowed himself to be photographed one evening by a pro photo man (not me) and he could be seen clearly standing in an isle with his elbow on a shelf showing a smile?? on daylight film it showed an empty isle? Oh & you,re right i DO exist as concentrated matter? Any comments? spooky places can be fun (but dont go alone, you are more likely to see a spirit/ghost)?/?


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 Post subject: Re: Spiritualist Church
PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 10:56 pm 
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ghost fox wrote:
Exellent response! i enjoyed the theory very much! only one minor point is as far as im aware at least the digital sensor is only capable of recording appx 75% of the image seen in the viewfinder of the camera, its true the wide angle theory is there, however to explain it another way is "to compensate for the missing pixles the sensor <duplicates> the nearest colour etc., next to it so if a particle of dust were to be captured OR a pinpiont of light then this would be magnified across the frame until 100% of the frame is full?" the pixles of course are tiny squares instead of tiny spots? BUT i believe the spots win every time! (ever seen what happens to the TV picture when the digital signal has a problem)? masses of mulchie squares! terestial just hissed a bit you didnt loose the picture? Its the same with film v digital!!! minus the hiss if its a 35mm still camera? In the case of Infra Red film v night vision is a little more tricky to explain? But im willing to guess that film structure is the same as normal film except for its super sensitivity? Correct me if im wrong BUT has spirit ever been captured using the modern night vision tecnique? i know for sure spirit HAS been photographed using infra red! A man who pushed things off shelves during the night at a toy warehouse allowed himself to be photographed one evening by a pro photo man (not me) and he could be seen clearly standing in an isle with his elbow on a shelf showing a smile?? on daylight film it showed an empty isle? Oh & you,re right i DO exist as concentrated matter? Any comments? spooky places can be fun (but dont go alone, you are more likely to see a spirit/ghost)?/?



Thanks for your views. I'm not as bad as perhaps Orbi thinks I am. I have my reasons for disbelieving orbs just as he has his reason for believing in them. Sometimes on here I do tend to dismiss things and not offer much of a thought as to why I dismiss them so readily.

Since I started investigating I've become more sceptical. I dont think I could be described as narrow minded, but I do tend to leave "paranormal" as a last chance saloon kind of thing.

That energies we dont understand exist is almost a given. I would never say we know of all types and forms of energy. I also dont dismiss the theory of stone tape etc. Becasue I can see there may be a possibility, however small, that some form of recording has been activated by some unknown energy. 60 years ago who would have though a metal and plastic disc could have holes burned in it and that it could reproduce video and audio? This makes stone tape theory believable in my mind.

I also wont ever say there are no genuine mediums etc. I've had my own experiences recently where i honestly think I worked on a pyschic level.
However I firmly beleive there is "nothing" in the orb theory and that its can be explained rationally by circles of confusion.

I have my limitations on what I find believable and what I find to be fantasy. I am sure you do so yourself.
I am also aware of the shortcomings of science and that it is a book that is still being written. I and many people immeasurable more intelligent than me cannot explain why the "universe" will not permit travel faster than the speed of light, why does it slow down time to make it impossible?

The answers are out there, we just havent discovered them yet. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Spiritualist Church
PostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 3:51 pm 
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Still smiling. :D

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 Post subject: Re: Spiritualist Church
PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 10:17 pm 
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Orb,s i think the jury is still out on this one? im not sure one way or the other, on still images ive been sceptical - but, watching these light anomalies flash across the frame on video/digi is less easy to explain? i dont know why spirit would be these balls of light? a spirit could just as easily show themselves in other forms? Not that i imagine why anyone would be interested in my views anyway? I also subscribe to the "stone tape" theory, being a sensitive one should be able to touch a wall etc., & with eyes closed be able to look into the past somewhat? Im sure you are aware of the term "psychometry"? both myself & my wife have demonsrated this to good effect to rooms of people? it amazes me as much as it does the people? so it comes as no surprise if a person can pick up an object belonging to someone (not knowing the identity of the owner) & proceed to describe the health of the person & various personal details, that buildings themselves also record details of what goes on around them? just how this could be projected into visual form is the real mystery here? a watch owned by someone i could perhaps read from BUT how could it show someone not touching it what secrets it has? Also im always fearful of upsetting anyone, as i hate to come over as a know it all & blind to others belieafs & thoughts? other ideas always welcome.


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 Post subject: Re: Spiritualist Church
PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2010 9:10 pm 
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so what happened to you all /? surely you havent all passed into spirit & realise you are now all ghosts??


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 Post subject: Re: Spiritualist Church
PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 10:50 am 
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No we're all still around, just very busy organising various things.

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 Post subject: Re: Spiritualist Church
PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 12:03 pm 
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I'm here.....just was as usual busy.

Work, home...baby on the way ;)

I saw your post last night but didnt have time to reply.

We could do with a lot of active discussion going on here, but it takes time to build things back up after a forum has gone quiet.

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 Post subject: Re: Spiritualist Church
PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 12:52 pm 
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Yeah, it's a busy time, but once it's over I'm sure the chat will begin again.

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 Post subject: Re: Spiritualist Church
PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 3:34 pm 
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This is a tongue in cheek comment, not a true reflection of my feelings:

I saw a sign outside a church which read:

"C H - R C H... There's only one thing missing".

I'm not sure "C H P R O O F R C H" is even a word.

:mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: Spiritualist Church
PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 3:38 pm 
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wonderful :D :D

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 Post subject: Re: Spiritualist Church
PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 10:14 pm 
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oh i am pleased about that? i believe you a are a decent chap Doctor? i wonder - how much does it really matter if people believe in ghosts or not? ive heard some people are actually frightened of them?? so why be frightened of something that doesnt exist? silly really isnt it? Why does Evette Fielding scream so much? there are many things i dont understand like how to do a lot of things on this laptop? now this IS mysterious? what makes one interested in how cold spots come to be? or why a shaddow moves across a room? what makes marks in sand/flower left on a table? or why gadgets react at certain places? what will it lead to that has NOT been discovered in the last 150 yrs? its all food for thought? the thing is when one has seen things beyond doubt - what use is it telling this to the total none believer?


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 Post subject: Re: Spiritualist Church
PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 10:14 pm 
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oh i am pleased about that? i believe you a are a decent chap Doctor? i wonder - how much does it really matter if people believe in ghosts or not? ive heard some people are actually frightened of them?? so why be frightened of something that doesnt exist? silly really isnt it? Why does Evette Fielding scream so much? there are many things i dont understand like how to do a lot of things on this laptop? now this IS mysterious? what makes one interested in how cold spots come to be? or why a shaddow moves across a room? what makes marks in sand/flower left on a table? or why gadgets react at certain places? what will it lead to that has NOT been discovered in the last 150 yrs? its all food for thought? the thing is when one has seen things beyond doubt - what use is it telling this to the total none believer?


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 Post subject: Re: Spiritualist Church
PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 9:18 am 
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Hi Ghostfox,

I was reading your latest post and wanted to comment on something about gadgets etc.

I suspect you are referring to things such as an EMF meter.
An EMF meter reacts to EMF and nothing else. So when it goes off all it means is theres an EMF field. It doest mean theres a ghost.

Cold spots in rooms are common, air moving around the room can only stay heated for so long before it looses its heat energy, so depending on the movement of the air currents its highly likely that a cold spot is 100% normal.

Shadows moving across a room, can be a difficult one. when you are sure that its not someone in the room moving, or movement shown from an external source such as car headlights passing by, then I'd start to think it may be unusual. Not a ghost, not paranormal but unusual and worthy of further investigation.


Science is moving forward, we have the ability to explain things people could only dream of 150 years ago.
Yet with all the equipment we use, we can only detect things that are normal. Such as movement, EMF, Temperature, thermal images

All these things are normal, its only the context they may appear in that could be paranormal.
Footprints in sand/flour unless you can prove with 100% accuracy and have evidence of that accuracy such as the footprints appearing on video then it has to be regarded as normal when reviewing evidence. We cant say this is proof a ghost exists, no matter how much someone swears the room was empty when the imprints appeared.

Sadly, its in the evidence stakes that most groups fall :(

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 Post subject: Re: Spiritualist Church
PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 10:47 pm 
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Hi Anth, yes you do make valid points BUT - if we cant say EMF meters OR themometers etc., are any use to prove something paranormal is/has occured then why not dispence with them? the question still has not been answered however, "WHY" do people investigate sites of REPORTED ghostly activity? What is being set out to PROVE exactly? i mean if all your meters etc., read nothing does that mean the place is not spooky? SO i will ask once more WHAT will it take to Prove ghosts, spirits & paranormal IS fact???? I ask because no matter what you come up with as proof beyond any reasonable doubt people will STILL say they dont believe in ghosts? this then becomes the Hobby "scary thing to do for a laugh, yarh" theory?


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 Post subject: Re: Spiritualist Church
PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 11:32 pm 
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Back in the raving 60s BBC was the only uk broadcaster untill an amazing man called Ronan O"Rhiley bought a ship & began broadcasting pop music to us! Known as Radio Caroline, however the Government wanted to stop it of course so in view of this Free Radio groups were set up to save the stations we all loved? i was one such person! The point is we didnt get FREE radio - what we DID get was government controlled commercial radio (which was VERY poor indeed at first) but we half got what we set out for which was pop music daily instead of a bit of Bing Crosby etc., laid out at set times of the day? So the Free Radio brigade was disbanded & we just have the odd old boys meetings to remember when radio really was brilliant? My point is WHEN will our ghost groups have all they need & disband OR will it simply get boring & grow out of fashion?


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