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 Post subject: Re: Spiritualist Church
PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 11:34 am 
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ghost fox wrote:
Hi Anth, yes you do make valid points BUT - if we cant say EMF meters OR themometers etc., are any use to prove something paranormal is/has occured then why not dispence with them? the question still has not been answered however, "WHY" do people investigate sites of REPORTED ghostly activity? What is being set out to PROVE exactly? i mean if all your meters etc., read nothing does that mean the place is not spooky? SO i will ask once more WHAT will it take to Prove ghosts, spirits & paranormal IS fact???? I ask because no matter what you come up with as proof beyond any reasonable doubt people will STILL say they dont believe in ghosts? this then becomes the Hobby "scary thing to do for a laugh, yarh" theory?



To prove a ghost exists?
Video evidence of an apparition that can be visually identified as the spirit of a deceased person. For that apparaition to interact with the people present and for the apparition to return over and over again, with different information that can be verified.


People didnt believe in space travel 100 years ago

300 years ago there were people who though the world was flat

60 years ago the microchip was but a dream, My Nana was born into a world that didnt have the microchip....does that make it more real for you? She's still alive today and turned 80 last March.

And who would have thought even 30 years ago that we would be listening to music, loading and saving data and watching movies off little silver discs? I'm 34 and was born into a world without digital music, even compact "mini" synthesisers didnt exist in 1976!

The first VHS video recorder didnt come on sale until 1978

The first personal stereo, the sony walkman, didnt arrive until 1979

In 1982 only 50% of housholds had a telephone!

The IBM PC was launched in 1981!

in 1988 there were 50,000 computers on the world wide web in 1991 there were 3 million!

Things are changing so fast, that its unlikely that definitive proof whether ghosts exist or not is that far away.

Why do we use equipment on investigations?
Well we are working with more than one theory, so, if EMF makes people hallucinate we can check for EMF. If people feel a temp drop we can check. My experience shows that MOST people experiencing a temp drop when checked reveals a slight temp rise....I think....and i stress THINK its about air currents moving.
What will prove the existence of a ghost? (or otherwise) technology plain and simple.

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 Post subject: Re: Spiritualist Church
PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 11:51 am 
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ghost fox wrote:
Back in the raving 60s BBC was the only uk broadcaster untill an amazing man called Ronan O"Rhiley bought a ship & began broadcasting pop music to us! Known as Radio Caroline, however the Government wanted to stop it of course so in view of this Free Radio groups were set up to save the stations we all loved? i was one such person! The point is we didnt get FREE radio - what we DID get was government controlled commercial radio (which was VERY poor indeed at first) but we half got what we set out for which was pop music daily instead of a bit of Bing Crosby etc., laid out at set times of the day? So the Free Radio brigade was disbanded & we just have the odd old boys meetings to remember when radio really was brilliant? My point is WHEN will our ghost groups have all they need & disband OR will it simply get boring & grow out of fashion?



GHOST group would obviously disband when it was confirmed whether ghosts did or did not exist. But many groups will continue to investigate the paranormal. Paranormal and ghosts although intertwinned are not the same thing.

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 Post subject: Re: Spiritualist Church
PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 10:39 pm 
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Hello Anth, im still not sure about technology being the source of proof that will provide the answers? you see as ive explained before, spirits ARE real people who now live in another place to us, this is a place that has its own laws! Now, if they are forbidden to show themselves & speak to us at length on camera etc., what is technology going to do about it? The point is it does not mean it doesnt exist? True, Paranormal covers various things, BUT its EXITING stuff! are the BIG Cats being seen actually ghosts of animals that once roamed these places? Are trained aeroplane pilots who see a UFO just seeing things? imagination, along with all the others who see it at the same time? (of course ghosts have been seen by several people at once) and what of the Doppleganger whitnessed many at the same time? We have so much we do not understand & nobody has any chance of prooving OR disproving it - except ufo,s that is who will at some point meet us? However if science is correct then after 2012 we will ALL be in the spirit world?? Hey but look on the bright side - at least i will be able to say "i told you so" ?


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 Post subject: Re: Spiritualist Church
PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 11:19 pm 
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ghost fox wrote:
Hello Anth, im still not sure about technology being the source of proof that will provide the answers? you see as ive explained before, spirits ARE real people who now live in another place to us, this is a place that has its own laws! Now, if they are forbidden to show themselves & speak to us at length on camera etc., what is technology going to do about it? The point is it does not mean it doesnt exist? True, Paranormal covers various things, BUT its EXITING stuff! are the BIG Cats being seen actually ghosts of animals that once roamed these places? Are trained aeroplane pilots who see a UFO just seeing things? imagination, along with all the others who see it at the same time? (of course ghosts have been seen by several people at once) and what of the Doppleganger whitnessed many at the same time? We have so much we do not understand & nobody has any chance of prooving OR disproving it - except ufo,s that is who will at some point meet us? However if science is correct then after 2012 we will ALL be in the spirit world?? Hey but look on the bright side - at least i will be able to say "i told you so" ?



Theres a multitude of things out there.....the trained pilots thing is a bit of a paradox, many are ex military pilots, being they were used to identifying old technology. I'm learning to fly, so you could say I am a partly trained pilot, I can still mis-identify things though.

I Also dont get this laws forbidding spirit from talking to us, perhaps more alleged spirits should obey this law, but why is there a need for laws in the afterlife?
Saying theres laws and regulations to me is a cop out, for a ghost to exist it would defy the current known laws of physics, so why obey any laws?

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 Post subject: Re: Spiritualist Church
PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 11:59 pm 
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Look Anth it seems we may never agree on anything BUT then im a PRO MEDIUM, and you dont believe in mediumship? the thing is ive had CONCRETE proof over the years of being able to talk to the spirit world, and one thing they have ALL told me is they have laws to obey there just like here & you wont find out why until you get there yourself? Why do you suppose any nation OR any other planets in the solar system have laws? Even the animal kingdom have laws! perhaps not like ours but a form of law all the same! we,ve been told there are certain things we are NOT allowed to know & thats that, we had some dolls in a SEALED clear polythene box & we were told to look at the dolls? when we did one of the arms on each doll was raised strait up! we opened the box breaking the cellotape seal & put them down, put the box back on the shelf & 5 or 10 minutes later were told to look at the dolls again & their other arms were up! all unseen by us? then we were told later they had been told off & must not do this again?? Now " I " know this happened so if you dont believe me then u are saying im a liar??? ask me to tell you about the spirit vicar of Yorkshire?


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 Post subject: Re: Spiritualist Church
PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 9:46 am 
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The beauty of it is, we dont have to agree on anything. This is all just speculation and oppinions. :)

OK I'm going to say this next bit with the greatest of respect...something I usually dont stress, so you are fortunate ;)

I dont know you from Adam, reality is, I could have spoken to you Sunday evening....I just dont know.
You say you have concrete proof, if you had, this debate would be over and groups would be disbanding. What you actually have is personal experience, its not proof in any way shape or form.

Lets be frank here.....I could just as easily say I saw a dragon this morning, and spoke to it, but only I can see it and interact with it, if you disagree are you calling me a liar?
I know what you are saying isnt exactly the same, but its also not a million miles away.

When I work with a medium, I Listen to what they say, but unfortunately whilst most of it is amazing and interesting, its not evidence until we can back up some of it from historical records, and even then we cant be 100% certain that the medium didnt get the info from another source. See Derek Accorah's alleged failings.

I've experienced strange things, but I dont necesarily believe in the ghost of great Aunt Doris.
And although I have an Aunt who claims Psychic ability.....I have reservations about it, the fact that some people can get information is beyond doubt for me (but its not proven), BUT its where that information is coming from that I feel is in dispute.

We can all pick up on feelings in a place, even myself. We know if somewhere doesnt feel right. Its not necessarily a pyschic ability. On Sunday evening I was in Middlesbrough town hall, i leant on the stage (right hand side as you look at it) and two names popped into my head.....Carsson or Karlsson I am unsure which all I can remember is that there was an "insistance" of the Double S.
I interpret this to be a Scandanavian type name, probably Swedish. But the sensatives in the group were getting a polish name. Odd I know, and its a great personal experience, but unless we can find a name matching what I felt, its nothing more than a personal issue.

If I was expected to go around, taking what other people said as gospel truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, I would be a very gullible person. I have to process the information given to me, yes its good when that ties up with the historical record, and its interesting even if it doesnt. But its not necessarily evidence.

The dolls arms are a great tale, I have to use tale because unless you have video evidence including any anti tamper proof, it has to remain a tale, even though I understand more than one person witnessed it.

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 Post subject: Re: Spiritualist Church
PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 10:46 am 
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Ghostfox, please come back I am enjoying this discussion.

For once I am not trying to offend anyone.

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 Post subject: Re: Spiritualist Church
PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 11:59 pm 
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Hello Anth, sorry i didnt get back strait away i just got sidetracked, i then ran out of time (im restricted by the wife) but many thanks for the respect shown! it is appreciated. im not so easily offended (except by own family or close friends) BUT ok i hold my hands up - you are correct of course the concrete proof ive received was to myself & others present at given times & this was not taped or filmed? but was concrete enough for me to believe as there was no trickery involved! i will never forget being given the address of a friend (dead) from spirit we had no idea where he lived - i wrote this down & when checked in a Yorkshire sreetguide later was gobsmacked to find it was there & proved to be spot on!!! none of us knew where he lived but he wanted us to see the place where died at his home from gunshot wounds? this is why he gave us the address? this could NOT be ESP as none of knew! esp is reading minds as you well know. Its proof enough for me! But lets say a pal sees a Tiger on the way to work - its in a field barely 40ft away - he doesnt hang around, ok he cant film it but do you believe him or call him a liar lose a friends trust? there many thousands of ghost stories, you cant just say ghosts dont exist just because they were not on film? its well known also a ghost may be witnessed by one or two people yet not seen by others? it doesn mean the few were halucinating - it simply means "somehow" spirit has a way of selecting who can & cant see them? when ive worked on the church rostrums ive had people say to me later they saw someone with me OR my face changed to the person the message was coming from?? Just Imagination or Reality for them in a time of need?


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 Post subject: Re: Spiritualist Church
PostPosted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 12:31 am 
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AS a medium i dont concern myself with where messages OR voices come from i just accept it & still get amazed at the accuracy sometimes. My next comment is one i do not wish to sound offensive BUT we have the age old subject of GOD? allah,budda oh & of course Jehova? do you believe in god? there is no proof whatsoever yet people believe in god but not in ghosts? yet Jesus came to see his deciples after he died - he had to be a ghost! (spirit or whatever) my spirit friend Kenny said YES god is real when i asked but would not say more? when you were at Middlesborough Town Hall & got a Scandernavian while the others got Polish may simply be you were getting different people? it isnt always possible to verify everything BUT bloody brilliant when you can! when we were at Chillingham Castle some time ago my wife was hugging a tree (dont ask) and she got a mans name, when we went to the desk to pay she mentioned the name to the chap at the desk & he said "oh are you one of those psychic type women"? she said yes why? because thats the name of the torturer at this castle as far as we know he said? it was our first visit to the castle & my wife has not been back? in fact some of the info the guide gives on his talk was suppied by my wife & myself i discovered on a following visit by myself? (i said nothing to him) OF course i would never expect you to just believe! we tell everyone to believe nothing & check everything! (especially bloody Jehovas Witnesses) but as i said sometimes you just have to accept things even though you cant verify it beyond reproach?


Last edited by ghost fox on Fri Oct 01, 2010 12:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Spiritualist Church
PostPosted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 12:31 am 
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Someone Strange

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AS a medium i dont concern myself with where messages OR voices come from i just accept it & still get amazed at the accuracy sometimes. My next comment is one i do not wish to sound offensive BUT we have the age old subject of GOD? allah,budda oh & of course Jehova? do you believe in god? there is no proof whatsoever yet people believe in god but not in ghosts? yet Jesus came to see his deciples after he died - he had to be a ghost! (spirit or whatever) my spirit friend Kenny said YES god is real when i asked but would not say more? when you were at Middlesborough Town Hall & got a Scandernavian while the others got Polish may simply be you were getting different people? it isnt always possible to verify everything BUT bloody brilliant when you can! when we were at Chillingham Castle some time ago my wife was hugging a tree (dont ask) and she got a mans name, when we went to the desk to pay she mentioned the name to the chap at the desk & he said "oh are you one of those psychic type women"? she said yes why? because thats the name of the torturer at this castle as far as we know he said? it was our first visit to the castle & my wife has not been back? in fact some of the info the guide gives on his talk was suppied by my wife & myself i discovered on a following visit by myself? (i said nothing to him) OF course i would never expect you to just believe! we tell everyone to believe nothing & check everything! (especially bloody Jehovas Witnesses) but as i said sometimes you just have to accept things even though you cant verify it beyond reproach?


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 Post subject: Re: Spiritualist Church
PostPosted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 11:14 am 
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I'll construct a long post soon. But lets just say i dont disgree with what you are saying.
I just say what i think.

My aunt who is psychic is actually at my house now...wallpapering...And i'm working from home.

Might have a discussion with her later.

Ghostfox, keep up the good work and please dont assume I am not interested. I just....for my own sanity....have to rely on cold hard scientific facts. But i love everything else.

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 Post subject: Re: Spiritualist Church
PostPosted: Sat Oct 09, 2010 2:51 pm 
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what happened Anth i was also enjoying the debate?


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 Post subject: Re: Spiritualist Church
PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 12:20 am 
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another week & still no reply? where,s ANTH?


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 Post subject: Re: Spiritualist Church
PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 4:42 pm 
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Beth24 wrote:
hmm that seems to be a general theme with these things...the more you go the more 'hits' you get.
The sceptic in me is.....well sceptical!


I found this too. Went for a few weeks, and the same people got similiar readings.

They were pleasant enough, but it didn't do anything for me. There is too much of a questioning sceptic in me to have that sort of faith.


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 Post subject: Re: Spiritualist Church
PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 4:47 pm 
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I've been once myself but it wasn't for me. The mediums were incredible accurate with 'old nelly who'd been going there for years', but totally failed when it came to me. I knew that I would just become annoyed if I stayed, and it would not have been fair to a religion that some people take seriously.

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 Post subject: Re: Spiritualist Church
PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 5:18 pm 
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love em me :lol: :lol: shame you didnt get what you were looking for tho Dok, mediums can only give off what they get, maybe next time when you go back? :wink:


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