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 Post subject: Are mediums relevant on investigations?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 12:39 pm 
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I know there is a thread asking this already,but interested to see if peoples views on this have changed at all.

But another question also,why do so many investigations revolve around 'mediums' or 'equipment'?

From what I gather people who have been investigating the paranormal for many many years say the popularity or medium centred investigations has come about since Most Haunted,and I can go along with that.

I think its a shame that mediums dont demand more from investigation groups who use them,I dont get why they dont want to be used as part of the investigative process,effectively a 'tool', as oppose to often being the 'centre' of the investigation around which all other things are 'hung' off.

This is aimed more at guest night types of investigations, and I can see why this is.........and I know mediums who feel put on the spot and under pressure at times,but at the end of the day if they aint getting owt they aint getting owt, and if they are they are,same as an emf meter or any other tool.............

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 Post subject: Re: Are mediums relevant on investigations?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 12:54 pm 
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In the past 'paranormal investigators' have either investigated an alleged haunted property or tested the abilities of an alleged medium, but rarely both together I agree. Most Haunted is certainly responsible for much of this.

I do not discount the reality of true mediums and it is for this reason that I do feel that they are relevant to investigations, but I can't understand why they are often treated like performing seals, especially on non guest investigations.

I also think there is too much pussyfooting around mediums. If they are confident in their abilities and want to be part of a 'team' then they should be willing to 'help' everyone else understand their 'gift' and not be offended if people ask them 'tricky' questions or do not take what they say as gospel. We're all pulling in the same direction after all.

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 Post subject: Re: Are mediums relevant on investigations?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 1:10 pm 
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I think mediums are as relevant as anything else as part of the investigative 'tool box',so to speak.

I can see where the 'performing seal' aspect comes from on guest nights/ghost hunts etc though,there are a sea of faces wanting 'ghosts' all focused on the mediums,cos this is where the investigators faces turn to too when it seems no ghosties are coming out to play and its looking like its going to be a long night ahead hehehehehe!!!

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 Post subject: Re: Are mediums relevant on investigations?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 1:46 pm 
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The problem with mediums is their accuracy can only be checked afterwards. So during the investigation we dont know if, as a tool, they are functioning correctly.

Yes we can set some test data, but the problems we have is there is no way to know the medium hasnt read the same data.
So what do we do? Should we intentionally try and trick the medium to see if they re-produce our loaded data or do we note what they say and research after the fact?

Its often fun to have a medium around, they can make an "investigation" seem "real" to paying guests, but those who are into investigation seriously would, i hope, not take a mediums word as gospel truth.

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 Post subject: Re: Are mediums relevant on investigations?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 1:53 pm 
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I think its only sensible to work with 'equipment' that 'does what it says on the packet'.

However like anything,this is only known through trial and error,and defining 'what is on the packet' in regards mediums is different to other types of equipment etc.

I htink the key with mediums is to understand them as people, and how they work,I dont think 'hits' and 'misses' will ever be reallly acceptable as 'evidence' alone,as if its googleable then the medium cannot 'prove' they havent googled it, or come across it indirectly etc,if its not easy to be found but still able to be found then again, its up to the medium to 'prove' that they havent found it themselves (or had someone else do it).....and if what a medium says in untraceable then it appears that the medium is just 'talking shite' hehehehehehe!!!

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 Post subject: Re: Are mediums relevant on investigations?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 2:03 pm 
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pollen101 wrote:
I think its only sensible to work with 'equipment' that 'does what it says on the packet'.

However like anything,this is only known through trial and error,and defining 'what is on the packet' in regards mediums is different to other types of equipment etc.

I htink the key with mediums is to understand them as people, and how they work,I dont think 'hits' and 'misses' will ever be reallly acceptable as 'evidence' alone,as if its googleable then the medium cannot 'prove' they havent googled it, or come across it indirectly etc,if its not easy to be found but still able to be found then again, its up to the medium to 'prove' that they havent found it themselves (or had someone else do it).....and if what a medium says in untraceable then it appears that the medium is just 'talking shite' hehehehehehe!!!


This is it, how can you calibrate a medium?
We can calibrate other equipment, we can check their accuracy. So why should we rely on a "tool" we dont know is accurate or reliable?
Thats pseudo science ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Are mediums relevant on investigations?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 2:06 pm 
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I'm going to play Devils Advocate here (not like me that! :wink: )

How can you calibrate a piece of equipment used on an investigation, Anth?

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 Post subject: Re: Are mediums relevant on investigations?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 2:09 pm 
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ha,thats interesting you use the word 'calibrate' Anth,as people can be basically calibrated,hence why 'the key with mediums is to understand them as people, and how they work'.

Whilst 'other tools' can be calibrated,any tool is still just a 'tool',and in the hands of the 'user',and 'interpreter'.........PEOPLE are always the only tools we have....and we are 'faulty' at best
(see 'the neuroscience of screwing up thread article,and watch the vid link too),regardless of any other tool, it always comes back to 'people'.......

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 Post subject: Re: Are mediums relevant on investigations?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 2:14 pm 
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Anth wrote:
Should we intentionally try and trick the medium to see if they re-produce our loaded data or do we note what they say and research after the fact?


If we produced some loaded data and let it 'slip' to a medium, (like what O'Keefe did to Derek on Most Haunted), what would it prove?
I know what it would SEEM like (also the most likely explanation) but there is still so many questions.

As for 'calibrating people' I think understanding how they work as individuals is the key. At the moment we don't seem to be getting the most out of their alleged abilities.

Oh, the never ending medium dilemma!

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 Post subject: Re: Are mediums relevant on investigations?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 2:27 pm 
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Jay wrote:
I'm going to play Devils Advocate here (not like me that! :wink: )

How can you calibrate a piece of equipment used on an investigation, Anth?


Calibrate equipment? Do you test it?
Motion sensor, does it go off if you break the beam

Digital thermometers can be calibrated anywhere especially if you have more than one or another accurate means of reading the temperature.

Voice recorders dont need to be calibrated as such, but you can check they are functioning correctly.

IR cameras, do they work?

What about a 20 meter IR illuminator, would you set it up 50 metres from your intended object of view? no, so you have calibrated it.

Calibration simply means are they working within parameters and if not what can be done, well if they arent you dont use them.
Do you check batteries in your equipment prior to the start of an invo, (i bloody hope so) again its a check of equipment.

You cant actually do this with a medium, because you have no way of establishing the correctness AND authenticity of the data until afterwards, at which point they could have been feeding you 12 hours of utter shit and hads you barking up the wrong tree.

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 Post subject: Re: Are mediums relevant on investigations?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 2:37 pm 
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Do you think there is a shift for more mediums to describe themselves as sensitives nowadays, because I do?

After all, getting 'feelings' and 'impressions' about a place is thwart will far less pitfalls than direct communication with any spirits present.

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 Post subject: Re: Are mediums relevant on investigations?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 2:58 pm 
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yeah Mark....gets on my fuckin tits too.......

We all get shit,each and every one of us, seems to me that 'sensitive' is again one of those descriptions/labels which can mean absolutely fuckin anything.

I can understand why some people use this and prefer it,but it now has implications also just as the term/label 'medium' does.........

I know some mediums who dont like the term medium purely because of the 'spiritualist' connotations which go with it etc,which is understandable,however 'sensitive' now has its own 'connotations'..........

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 Post subject: Re: Are mediums relevant on investigations?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 3:02 pm 
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doktor_phibes wrote:
Do you think there is a shift for more mediums to describe themselves as sensitives nowadays, because I do?

After all, getting 'feelings' and 'impressions' about a place is thwart will far less pitfalls than direct communication with any spirits present.


I agree there, I also am highly suspicious of the term sensative. Its like betting against yourself.

To date only one medium has ever amazed me and I cant remember his name lmao. He's local though.

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 Post subject: Re: Are mediums relevant on investigations?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 3:06 pm 
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How did he 'amaze' you Anth?

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 Post subject: Re: Are mediums relevant on investigations?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 3:11 pm 
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doktor_phibes wrote:
How did he 'amaze' you Anth?


Bloke i had never met before told me in great detail about family issues.
Even as far as saying he could see my cousin, who had died, was showing him a bracelet and inside was a picture of me. Only my family knew that this was true.

Its not even a close hit, it was factual to the point and I was giving nothing away. In fact I sat there arms folded right through the reading. I didnt nod nor shake my head at anything he said and told him very little when I left.

I would like to find out if he still does readings and record one, see if he is accurate again. Obviously I would discount things he has already said, but so much has changed recently I suspect he would pick up on something. I'll have to try and figure out who it was. He used to do disco's around stockton iirc.

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 Post subject: Re: Are mediums relevant on investigations?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 3:13 pm 
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Interesting Anth. Maybe someone else on here knows of him?

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 Post subject: Re: Are mediums relevant on investigations?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 3:14 pm 
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what disco were you at when he told you that Anth???

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 Post subject: Re: Are mediums relevant on investigations?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 3:19 pm 
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pollen101 wrote:
what disco were you at when he told you that Anth???


I wasnt. He used to visit peoples houses and do readings.

I got a reading because I was curious and thought it would be a laugh. I was surprised at how accurate it was.

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 Post subject: Re: Are mediums relevant on investigations?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 11:14 am 
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Seems to me that both are relevant and irrelevant depending on what results you want to find.
Mediums are subjective in terms of information,cant be calibrated and usually somewhat vague. No way to really measure accuracy of information given and no way to know whether they have researched the site. Equally they can be useful, entertaining and on occasion the perfect tool for an investigation if they arent fraudsters.
Equipment is empirical in nature and can give substantive facts and figures.The main problem with equipment is that generally we cant be certain what we lookin for and in which area, emf fields, temp etc. So while it can record and report, it doesnt really tell us who or what is there.
Generally speaking I think it depends on the invo group and their beliefs/nature as to which they think is better, believers will go with the medium and sceptics with the equipment. Even worse if a certain results is required then some groups will rely on one type of evidence only oe fixing the deck. Personally having enjoyed last invo with John on board am looking forward to meeting Pam in the future.

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 Post subject: Re: Are mediums relevant on investigations?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 1:02 pm 
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''Equipment is empirical in nature and can give substantive facts and figures.The main problem with equipment is that generally we cant be certain what we lookin for and in which area, emf fields, temp etc. So while it can record and report, it doesnt really tell us who or what is there.''

Totally agree.
However if certain 'experiences' are experienced in certain 'conditions', then thats worth looking into and measuring whilst on an invo.

To me its all about 'patterns', they speak louder to me than isolated incidents,and 'enviromental' patterns are a part of this.

Same as any 'medium patterns'. Not in a 'hits' or 'misses' way (based on what???), I mean the patterns that show up from what they get,how they work, how they see the world how they function as people.Same with all investigators too,cos to me whatever 'recordings/measurements' come from the equipment,how thats presented and whats taken from it it down to those presenting them.
hence why to me its all about information gathering,letting that speak for itself if any 'patterns' come from it then they are maybe somewhere to look into more in depth,as oppose to jumping to conclusions based on either the equipment readings from 1 or even a few nights at the same place, and trying to make fit information from what mediums give (see the Long John cat vid I postesd in NGI chat hehehe!)

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 Post subject: Re: Are mediums relevant on investigations?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 3:09 pm 
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Im poor lol cant get into that area
Can you post it somewhere else please Claire?

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 Post subject: Re: Are mediums relevant on investigations?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 3:20 pm 
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shit, sorry I didnt mean NGi chat, I meant the chat sectionof the forum,the vid on the thread 'sensitives' in 'general chat'!

you cant be poor all the hours you work anyway!!!!!!

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 Post subject: Re: Are mediums relevant on investigations?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 12:00 am 
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I disagree

We use equipment to take readings knowing full well what that equipment tells us is there. An EMF meter detects EMF if it gives a reading theres EMF. Obviously it cant tell us theres a ghost there as its an EMF detector not a ghost detector.

Thermometer gives us temperature, At Acklam hall I was getting temp anomolies in most rooms, hot and cold spots, but the building was not insulated well, it was draughty and there were many broken and cracked windows. So I saw varying temperatures. Not ghosts.

Voice recorder, records sounds within set frequencies. If it records a sound the sound was most likely audible to those present. It doesnt mean the voice of the dead.

True we dont know if these pieces of equipment can interact with "ghosts" like we dont know if they are capable of interacting with alien life form or speaking to insects or anything else for that matter. We have to first provide irrefutable proof that ghosts exist before we can even begin to say this equipment is worth taking on an investigation....however it seems to me that its going to be the equipment on investigations that offer the irrefutable evidence of the existence of spirits if they do indeed exist.


I suspect a lot of so called mediums simply talk out of their arse! There I have said it.

Just been watching "scariest places on earth" and if ever there was evidence of mass hysteria this is it! stupid dumb american college kids mostly female, invetsigating spooky places, screaming, crying and getting all emotional. Bah! I could have told you the outcome of this before i saw the program! Its a series on one of the CBS channels on sky.

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 Post subject: Re: Are mediums relevant on investigations?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 12:06 pm 
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Yeah saw that and worlds scariest ghosts, oh dear, usual USA crap

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 Post subject: Re: Are mediums relevant on investigations?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 1:06 pm 
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but ya's still watch it!!!!!!!!xxxxxxxxx

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