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 Post subject: Controversial Equipment
PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2011 2:11 pm 
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The Ferryman
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Is it ok to use controversial equipment such as 'Ghost Boxes' and handheld low-end EMF meters on investigations, or should groups discard these items that are commonly regarded as being of little or no use?

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 Post subject: Re: Controversial Equipment
PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2011 2:32 pm 
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EMF meters are fine, so long as you are using them to gather data.
If you think they will locate a ghost, then they shouldnt be used.

Ghost boxes.....not sure on these things. If they are to be used as an experimental way of testing communication.....another way for EVP to be heard in real time then they may have some use. But it would take a lot of results before I would be prepared to say it was anythign other than interference from localised radio.
But I guess a ghostbox is no different to a ouija board or glass divination in terms of communication.

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 Post subject: Re: Controversial Equipment
PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2011 2:49 pm 
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I'm personally of the opinion that 'if you've got it use it'. It is the conclusions that the draw from the equipment that is the most important.

For example, if your standard EMF meter is used correctly it will detect EMF. The EMF that it will detect will not be an accurate reading (unless you are using a tri field meter), but it will at least say whether EMF is present and give an idea of its strength. The cheap meters don't pick up on the 'proven' experience inducing fields, but is this a reason for the average group not to bother with them? Of course not.

If the conclusions that you draw are that there is EMF present that MAY account for certain experiences, and not that an unexplained source is proof of spirit presence there is no problem.

I agree that Ghost Boxes are just the same as Ouija boards. Far too subjective to be of any real use on their own, but again is this reason enough to discount them? Again I say 'no'. As long as the info gained from these devices is not taken as evidence in its own right they could still be of use to the investigator.

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 Post subject: Re: Controversial Equipment
PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2011 6:34 pm 
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Everything is iffy unless the operator is knowledgeable in its dealings.

For instance, I do not like the ghost box at all because it sounds utterly ridiculous. I'm not discounting it for my total disdain for it though, as I saw one YouTube video once where a skeptic said that it wasn't a ghost in the recording, the investigator captured certain words that were just scanned off a radio broadcast. The investigator said the 's' and 'f' words are NOT heard on radio stations. Even though that doesn't prove a ghost of course it's a valid point. However, it doesn't look good for the investigator in certain peoples' eyes that get offended by hearing bad words though, so they could be turned off by that and discount the ghost box.

My opinion in using it is that it should be recorded from in case someone is investigating a place and gets what seems to be responses from conversation, but not direct conversation from an alleged spirit, since if you keep on asking questions and getting responses, the spirit could follow you home and start causing trouble. So that's not a good idea to keep on asking questions, just like with an Ouiji board where only people knowledgeable should use them, since they allegedly open doors and board operators have to close that door at the end of a session when using one.

Also, there are people who are definitely psychic and have debunked the fakers, as I've known people who could look at an alleged ghost photo and give information about that person or do the same with an evp recording. However, they can detect fakes as well. I know of one person who was busted for fraud on YouTube (using the magnet on a digital recorder to set off her EMF meter repeatedly, claiming that it was a spirit, yet every time she asked the so-called "spirit" to set off the EMF she moved the digital recorder on top of it :roll: ), posting on investigators' videos saying she had 'crystal clear' evps on her channel, yet when you heard them you didn't even need a computer program (which have been around since the 1980s or so) to show they were actual human voices, it was just someone offscreen saying something and they claimed it was an evp. The psychic said the voice was provided by some chubby guy with brown hair and eyes and was like 5'10" or something and was still alive. Makes me wonder what the fraud would have said back if someone posted what the psychic said...I'm sure she would have crapped herself.

I also heard another so-called evp video where the person was just playing one of the Star Wars movies in the background at some point when Chewie was growling and claiming it was an evp, and I said exactly that, that it was from a movie (I think I could hear Han Solo saying something too at one point). She claimed it was real. I had the psychic check it out and she said it was fake. Granted I know these examples don't prove anything either, and I can give more in regards to things she said about me that there was no way possible she could have known but this post is a bit long as it is, so I'll just wrap it up here...

So like I said, equipment depends on certain circumstances and people involved.


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 Post subject: Re: Controversial Equipment
PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2011 7:04 pm 
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I know not so long ago someone used this ghost box, yes it was noisey and slightly annoyed alot of people in the group, but I say I enjoyed it and was rather interested in it. It is a good way/source to see if there is any energy around. There are so many ways to get spirit's attention. I got a detector myself and the only time it truley went off and beeped was in a house we where clearing from bad spirit vibes (as the couple done oujie without protection.) Thats the night I also caught a voice on my dictaphone saying 'what you doing in here?'

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 Post subject: Re: Controversial Equipment
PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2011 7:54 pm 
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Yeah that's good...let them talk, don't deliberately seek them out. If they're bored and wanting attention and/or are flat-out malicious it's not a good idea to make it obvious you're talking with them.


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 Post subject: Re: Controversial Equipment
PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2011 9:23 am 
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Some interesting points there. Can I just press you on a couple of points. The first:
tviscante wrote:
just like with an Ouiji board where only people knowledgeable should use them, since they allegedly open doors and board operators have to close that door at the end of a session when using one.

What constitutes being knowledgeable about them? Do you mean the user should be psychic and do all the opening and closing protection 'rituals'. I have been using them for years, I have a pretty good knowledge of their history and also theories about how they work. Does this constitute knowledge, or do you need to do the psychic stuff in your opinion?

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 Post subject: Re: Controversial Equipment
PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2011 9:28 am 
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The second

tviscante wrote:
there are people who are definitely psychic and have debunked the fakers

Surely 'definitely psychic' is very much a matter of opinion as no one has proved this definitively. Sure, there is compelling evidence but no rock solid proof.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not anti-psychic, In fact I do believe there could be something in it, I am just interested in debating the matter.

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 Post subject: Re: Controversial Equipment
PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2011 9:29 am 
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The Ferryman
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Technically speaking, all equipment is a waste of time .. Ok, I can see the limited use of EMFs if EMF can induce hallucination (is there an actual scientific paper on this or is it just a sceptical rationalisation to explain things away???) ..

But ultimately, until a ghost is captured and contained within a research lab and we get to know what one is, what its made of, what its capable of or not - then all equipment use is really just guesswork. Its like someone going to hunt a "mythical" lion on the plains of Africa for the very first time after hearing stories of this huge beast - and taking a Brussel Sprout along as bait. Its just guessing what will work and what won't.

Hhhmm .. theres an idea .. I'm taking a sprout on my next invo!! :D

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 Post subject: Re: Controversial Equipment
PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2011 9:31 am 
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Jay wrote:
Hhhmm .. theres an idea .. I'm taking a sprout on my next invo!! :D



But if the ghost is like me, it would be repulsed at said sprout.

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 Post subject: Re: Controversial Equipment
PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2011 9:39 am 
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The Ferryman
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Anth wrote:
Jay wrote:
Hhhmm .. theres an idea .. I'm taking a sprout on my next invo!! :D



But if the ghost is like me, it would be repulsed at said sprout.


Exactly the point I'm making Anth .. :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Controversial Equipment
PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2011 6:35 pm 
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doktor_phibes wrote:
Some interesting points there. Can I just press you on a couple of points.


No problem...

doktor_phibes wrote:
tviscante wrote:
just like with an Ouiji board where only people knowledgeable should use them, since they allegedly open doors and board operators have to close that door at the end of a session when using one.

What constitutes being knowledgeable about them? I have been using them for years, I have a pretty good knowledge of their history and also theories about how they work. Does this constitute knowledge, or do you need to do the psychic stuff in your opinion?


I'd say it's definitely "knowledge", since very little can actually be proved about the paranormal. Like with using scrying mirrors (people have said they're about equivalent to the ouiji), you *should* perform whatever the rituals are (I don't know what they are myself) to allegedly open and close the door to prevent any entities from staying here or keeping the door open to letting some of their friends in, or whatever the theory is about them.

doktor_phibes wrote:
Do you mean the user should be psychic and do all the opening and closing protection 'rituals'.


They don't *have* to be psychic, but it'd help, since quite a few entities are bored and can't be trusted, they could say that they're something they're not, just like when a friend of mine went over some evps from a panicked woman who was trying to communicate at her ex-boyfriend's grave who had killed himself. An entity said he was the guy, followed her home and started causing all sorts of trouble. It said such horrible things my friend wouldn't even tell ME what it said in the recordings she sent him. If she had a psychic with her it's possible they would have known the entity wasn't who he said he was and would have warned her to steer clear of any further communication with it.

doktor_phibes wrote:
tviscante wrote:
there are people who are definitely psychic and have debunked the fakers

Surely 'definitely psychic' is very much a matter of opinion as no one has proved this definitively. Sure, there is compelling evidence but no rock solid proof.


Yeah there are supposedly tests (you might have heard about them and that's what you're referring to) that can indicate if someone is psychic or not. I've heard of people passing them.

doktor_phibes wrote:
Don't get me wrong, I'm not anti-psychic, In fact I do believe there could be something in it, I am just interested in debating the matter.


Not a problem, debating's fine, only thing I want is a debate without any 'wow you're a retard for believing in this crap' nonsense. And this board doesn't look to have any people like that on it, far as I can tell :)


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 Post subject: Re: Controversial Equipment
PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2011 12:40 am 
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tviscante wrote:
Not a problem, debating's fine, only thing I want is a debate without any 'wow you're a retard for believing in this crap' nonsense. And this board doesn't look to have any people like that on it, far as I can tell :)



I have my moments :mrgreen:

I dont say people are stupid as such, but if you say something I think is stupid I will say so.
I dont mean to offend, but I inevitably do.

I'll try my best to not offend anyone though. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Controversial Equipment
PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2011 9:07 am 
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tviscante wrote:
Not a problem, debating's fine, only thing I want is a debate without any 'wow you're a retard for believing in this crap' nonsense. And this board doesn't look to have any people like that on it, far as I can tell :)


I agree totally. There's plenty of aspects of the Paranormal that I believe in where people would say I'm a fool.

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