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 Post subject: Another hypothetical question
PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 1:10 pm 
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The Ferryman
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Does having tons of 'equipment' in a group make that group any more scientific, or more likely to get solid proof of the paranormal?

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 Post subject: Re: Another hypothetical question
PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 2:00 pm 
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Na, Just more likely to get tired carrying stuff round all night, and more likely to have to rely on people having transport.


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 Post subject: Re: Another hypothetical question
PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 3:26 pm 
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Define Proof.


Scientific proof, yes definately.
Even if you saw somehting and went back to get the proof, you would need the equipment to capture, record whatever was there.

The more data you get the more likely you are to have the proof.


To get a lead, all you need is your eyes and ears.

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 Post subject: Re: Another hypothetical question
PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 8:22 pm 
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depending on what extra equipment they use, i don't think it's all a necessity but i guess the more avenues explored increase the chances, so yeah i agree with anth


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 Post subject: Re: Another hypothetical question
PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 12:21 am 
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again like I've said before comes down to the application but solid proof?
fuck off hehehehehehehehe!!!!!!!!!

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 Post subject: Re: Another hypothetical question
PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 1:32 pm 
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Well personally I like messing with equipment but I don't think it's all much cop at getting Scientific Proof of the paranormal. Much better at eliminating the 'normal' (whatever that is), and for validating your own experiences.

I read in the recent issue of paranormal magazine in that bloke from ASSAPs column that his group won't even think about starting an invo without at least 15 night vision cameras. Have they or anyone else similar got 'scientific proof'? I don't think so. Even if they did would their 'scientific proof' be accepted by the scientific community? Would it hell.

Don't even get me started on that guys column. He makes me mad even though I agree with much of what he says.

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 Post subject: Re: Another hypothetical question
PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 4:03 pm 
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Until somebody has a ghost trapped in a cage in a lab which we can observe daily - then equipment means jack-shit. For readings from equipment to have any validity then we need something to observe on a regular basis.

Its fine having it on hand incase you get a 5 minute apparition - but to base an entire investigation onto using something that might prove irrelevent and might give no results whatsoever when something finally shows up is putting all your eggs in one basket to put it mildly.

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 Post subject: Re: Another hypothetical question
PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 4:10 pm 
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Jay wrote:
Until somebody has a ghost trapped in a cage in a lab which we can observe daily - then equipment means jack-shit. For readings from equipment to have any validity then we need something to observe on a regular basis.

Its fine having it on hand incase you get a 5 minute apparition - but to base an entire investigation onto using something that might prove irrelevent and might give no results whatsoever when something finally shows up is putting all your eggs in one basket to put it mildly.



Read it again but think belief. Weird huh?

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 Post subject: Re: Another hypothetical question
PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 4:12 pm 
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pardon????????

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 Post subject: Re: Another hypothetical question
PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 4:15 pm 
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Do you have information regarding ghosts that others don't have, Anth?

If people use an EMF detector, for instance, on an investigation then the use of it is based purely on belief - so well detected :mrgreen: .. someone once said that ghosts give off EMFs and so people blindly follow waving a little flashy and beeping thing around ... Wheres the science that says ghosts give off EMFs? Wheres the science that says that ghosts effect temperature? Wheres the science that says that ghosts can be picked up as EVPs? Give off Ion fields?

Its ALL BELIEF Anth .. ALL OF IT.

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 Post subject: Re: Another hypothetical question
PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 4:16 pm 
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ah right....get it now!!!

EXACTLY................

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 Post subject: Re: Another hypothetical question
PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 4:17 pm 
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HURRAH

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 Post subject: Re: Another hypothetical question
PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 4:18 pm 
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Quote:
but to base an entire investigation onto using something that might prove irrelevent and might give no results whatsoever when something finally shows up is putting all your eggs in one basket to put it mildly.



Read that again, he could be talking about belief, he could be talking about scepticism, he could be talking about fence sitting.

I makes no difference if you base your investugation on thing your fucked from the start.

But as I originally said, equipment is important because its equipment that will offer evidence of what you saw, heard and possibly felt. Without the equipment you have nothing but personal experiences and that means really very little in the search for the truth.


EDIT: As Jay has just put.....I beleive that a video camera will record whats put in front of it when its set to record. Oh hang on theres proof of that.... :roll:

if we wanted to go and sit in a dark building to see or hear ghosts then we wouldnt need a medium or a sensative or anything, because all we would need is a beleif that they were there and I can almost guarantee that these kind of people would experience a ghost anywhere their imagination was allowed to run away them.

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 Post subject: Re: Another hypothetical question
PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 4:20 pm 
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Jay wrote:
Do you have information regarding ghosts that others don't have, Anth?

If people use an EMF detector, for instance, on an investigation then the use of it is based purely on belief - so well detected :mrgreen: .. someone once said that ghosts give off EMFs and so people blindly follow waving a little flashy and beeping thing around ... Wheres the science that says ghosts give off EMFs? Wheres the science that says that ghosts effect temperature? Wheres the science that says that ghosts can be picked up as EVPs? Give off Ion fields?

Its ALL BELIEF Anth .. ALL OF IT.


None of its science though, what about those looking for EMF's? its a way to explain certain feeling humans get, some people can be highly sensative to EMF. We know this because its been studied.

I could make a device that randomly produced flashing lights, sooner or later some dumbass would be using it to contact spirits.
What these devices do is record what they are designed to record. If you find a high EMF field in a place that has no electricity, its something worthy of investigation surely?

If you want to push boundaries you have to base it on fact, not pick somehting and say what you want. You cant establish that ghosts exist because we dont know what they are, so lets find out what they are, are they energy? how do we measure sources of energy.......we dont jump in feet first and scream GHOSTIES!

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Last edited by Anth on Thu Jul 09, 2009 4:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Another hypothetical question
PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 4:24 pm 
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The Ferryman
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Anth wrote:
If you find a high EMF field in a place that has no electricity, its something worthy of investigation surely?


I totally agree. But you've still got a large proportion of people saying that 'Ghosts' do not give off EMF. I'm not sure how they know but they sure love saying it as much as those who claim the opposite.

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 Post subject: Re: Another hypothetical question
PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 4:27 pm 
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doktor_phibes wrote:
Anth wrote:
If you find a high EMF field in a place that has no electricity, its something worthy of investigation surely?


I totally agree. But you've still got a large proportion of people saying that 'Ghosts' do not give off EMF. I'm not sure how they know but they sure love saying it as much as those who claim the opposite.


So thats why you base the starting point on Fact and branch out from there, you detect an anomolous field, so you investigate it.

You dont go ohhhh spike it sa ghost. But it sometimes comes across that this is what happens. And it pisses me off no end it makes those that are serious about the investigations look like numpties.

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 Post subject: Re: Another hypothetical question
PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 4:30 pm 
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not sure you've entirely got what Jay was saying there Anth but then it could just be me not getting any of it hehehehe!

did someone mention eggs???

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 Post subject: Re: Another hypothetical question
PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 4:33 pm 
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Anyone who jumps to the conclusion that anything anomolous is a ghost is indeed a numpty. These things should be investigated fully.

If you do investigate an EMF field and can find no explanation for it, what then?
You're still not that much further forward. You still can't claim it is definitely paranormal. All you have is evidence that there has been an EMF field with no known source present.

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 Post subject: Re: Another hypothetical question
PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 8:24 am 
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doktor_phibes wrote:
Does having tons of 'equipment' in a group make that group any more scientific, or more likely to get solid proof of the paranormal?

No it makes absolutly no difference at all because there will always be the naysayers that will always say a green light is red even if they are able to see it is green for whatever reason.

Personal proof is the only proof that matters because were all gonna find out the answer in the end anyway. :wink:

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