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 Post subject: why....
PostPosted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 11:39 am 
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Underworld Minion
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...do we use equipment at all to 'detect' 'ghosts' with?

Any of it, old, new, technical or asparagus spears thrown on the floor whatever it is why do we do this?

Obvious answers and not so obvious answers all welcome because from all the equipment being used it seems there is nothing which is coming back as 'proving' to 'joe public' that 'ghosts exist'.

Barring the reasons for this (thats for another thread!), why do we carry on using the same equipment in the same ways?

Maybe its a case of the old ''do what you've always done get what you'll always got''.............

In which case where do we go from here?

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 Post subject: Re: why....
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 11:34 am 
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Are we using equipment to detect ghosts though. I'd guess if you were then that would explain the negative results. The equipment will enhance our own senses...i.e night vision or IR etc

Data loggers are for collecting data and will only prove temp humidity etc

cameras are for (hopefully) catching anomolies.
EMF meters check for EMF fields.

I've yet to come across an "ACME Ghost prover device", But if one existed then I am sure we wouldn't be looking for answers.

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 Post subject: Re: why....
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 12:04 pm 
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totally agree Anth, top post!

So why are we using them all the time on investigations?

We can detect that there has been an 'unexplained' change in whatever we are measuring (espqcially nice if happens at the same time as activity etc) but all this is doing is saying ok, something is going on but its not saying what.
We ourselves can cause changes on most if not all of these things, many other things can too.

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 Post subject: Re: why....
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 1:31 pm 
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pollen101 wrote:
totally agree Anth, top post!

So why are we using them all the time on investigations?

We can detect that there has been an 'unexplained' change in whatever we are measuring (espqcially nice if happens at the same time as activity etc) but all this is doing is saying ok, something is going on but its not saying what.
We ourselves can cause changes on most if not all of these things, many other things can too.



Because logging masses of data means that we have th eoption to tally up experiences with hard fact. So if we feel cold in one area the temperature can prove if we really felt it or thought we felt.

Its a way to backup what we feel and think we see I guess.

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 Post subject: Re: why....
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 2:46 pm 
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Equipment is very useful for investigators to explain certain ghostly experiences. If a room is full of infrasound or strong EMF fields caused by wiring etc, we can use the information provided to go some way in explaining why people feel uncomfortable in a location etc.

So while it may not be the perfect way of proving the existence of 'ghosts', at least it helps us narrow things down a bit wile we are looking for answers.

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 Post subject: Re: why....
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 4:14 pm 
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top stuff and I totally agree with what your saying.

What if though we get all these 'abnormal' recordings but can find no cause for them. Do we label this as 'paranormal' or do we label it as 'not paranormal'.
And how far are we able to trace the 'sources' of the emf's or ultrasound or any other stuff like that?
Many people believe that 'ghosts' or 'energies' can cause as well as be caused by these things....that they 'create' this or use this energy somehow themselves in a variety of different ways.

So yeah, the equipment is ideal for all that but when it comes to 'proving' anything all the equipment is doing is 'disproving' (or eliminating 'natural sources) which is totally relevant obviously ....but yet again as no one knows exactly what anything is its a case of making things 'fit' into pre designed boxes for us as oppose to utelising other things too.

There seems to be one big tool that is constant and everyone 'uses' yet scrutiny of this aspect of it seems to be constantly neglected and ignored in favour of 'tools' and 'gadgets'.

Everything has its place and usefullness and the use of equipment in investigating is something I would always advocate for a variety of reasons. Experimenting with other things too si also a good idea.

What about the internal mechanisms of paranormal experiences tho.....seems to me that very little if any experimentation is given to this aspect of it outside of labs and psychology (as well as para) experiments.

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 Post subject: Re: why....
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 4:52 pm 
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If any equipment detected anything that did not have any obvious explanation, I would personally class is a 'possibly paranormal and worthy of further investigation'. What that further investigation would entail would depend on the activity recorded.

When things such as high EMF fields are detected, I agree that you are often limited to how much further investigation into it you can do, unless you have carte blanche to start ripping up floors etc. It is sometimes useful though. Take our last visit to the Tontine for example. One of the bedrooms had very high EMF readings in a place on the wall near the bedhead. We later found out that wall backed onto a junction box after further investigation. That is one bed I wouldn't like to sleep in as I wouldn't fancy the effects it would have on my brain.

I may be being a bit dense, but what exactly do you mean by 'internal mechanisms' Claire?

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 Post subject: Re: why....
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 5:43 pm 
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us....what we are and how we experience Mark....after all we are the ultimate experiencer of all of it as we understand it, if that makes sense.
Basically, whaever 'external' tools we use......they are only as effective as the 'tool' which uses them.....which is us.

A good example of what I mean is the old thing where get people in a 'supposedly' haunted room, take away 1 or more of thier senses and unless they are used to this situation they are probably going to notice things which they dont normally notice just cos they have shifted thier focus.
So, how do we know exactly how we process information and experience things really....we dont cos we are so used to doing what we do in the way we do it we dont 'think' about it, or focus on it in any way.
So basically......we are using a tool also that we have very little 'awareness' of either capability wise or even as a basis for how we work, how we think...how we interpret the data we recieve, whichis basically all we do etc as conciously and subconciously aware 'humans' in the 3-d.

Why is so much emphasis placed on external tools yet the 'piecer togetherer' ,if you like, of all the external tools isnt really fully understanding motives or reason or potential.

Now the mediumistic/sensitive (and all that entails as well as other stuff) covers that to a degree.......
but only in a limited way which is doing what science is doing, only the opposite.....from its own perspective but not seeking to go further than that from a detached, investigative perspective.

Anth mentioned human recollection earlier in another post.
Well this is just accepted that its a pretty shady area but there is never any further investigation of this usually (like I said outside labs/psychologists etcetcetc). Very few tests or experiments are done on investigtions regarding this, or outside them by paranormal investigation groups generally.All the focus ,barring the mediums/sensitives from the scientifcally based believer sceptics or ghost believers looking to verify thier beliefs in a scientific way to 'prove' them ,and many mediums/sensitives do this too, is all external. Which is fine, cos they are investigating things experienced in the external. However the 2 cannot be seperate cos the external is the internal and vice versa...........

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 Post subject: Re: why....
PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 1:47 pm 
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I agree that we should try more of that kind of thing although I think this type of experimentation would prove more useful in explaining why people have experiences, rather than providing any evidence of the supernatural.

Didn't Dr. Richard Wiseman try something a bit like this in the Edinburgh vaults a few years back? I think he concluded without a doubt that paranormal experiences were just down to people getting scared of the dark or something. Typical!

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