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 Post subject: Re: EMF
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 9:47 pm 
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The Ferryman
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Not necessarilly a physical being .. freed from the shackles of physicallity (have I made that word up???) .. some energetic force (telekinetic??) could be used to push, shove and tap on windows etc

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 Post subject: Re: EMF
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 12:10 am 
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yeah like someone said vicious circle :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: EMF
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 9:12 am 
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Jay wrote:
Not necessarilly a physical being .. freed from the shackles of physicallity (have I made that word up???) .. some energetic force (telekinetic??) could be used to push, shove and tap on windows etc



BUt this is highlighting inconsistencies in theories. If a ghost can produce an EMF then it has no need for our energy, yet ghosts allegedly cause temp drops because they are using the heat energy in the air to manifest.

We cant have it both ways. telekinetic energy would be highly concentrated and I'd guess, harder to generate than what it would take to say manifest or trigger a replay etc.

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 Post subject: Re: EMF
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 10:42 am 
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Maybe a ghost can produce EMF and the theory about them causing temp drops by using heat energy is wrong? :shock:

At the end of the day we still don't know, so we should go on recording all the data we can by any means possible.

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 Post subject: Re: EMF
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 11:10 am 
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doktor_phibes wrote:
Maybe a ghost can produce EMF and the theory about them causing temp drops by using heat energy is wrong? :shock:

At the end of the day we still don't know, so we should go on recording all the data we can by any means possible.


But here comes a new problem, whats the use of this data if we dont know what we are looking for?
Take wireless broadband for example, it transmits millions of bits of data including the encoded passwords (WEP keys). Its possible to extract these WEP keys by scanning the data being sent, but unless you know what you are looking for you are trying to find 128bits out of billions, it appears as junk.
So unless we figure out what the data means, we cannot know we are accurately recording the right data. Which again takes us full circle.

And we wonder why science wont touch this :D

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 Post subject: Re: EMF
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 11:21 am 
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Problems, problems, problems. I take your point about data collection, but it's really all we've got at the moment. At least the more data you collect, the more chance you have at seeing patterns and proving theories, but I fear looking for the proverbial needle in the haystack would be much easier. :shock:

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 Post subject: Re: EMF
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 1:21 pm 
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doktor_phibes wrote:
Problems, problems, problems. I take your point about data collection, but it's really all we've got at the moment. At least the more data you collect, the more chance you have at seeing patterns and proving theories, but I fear looking for the proverbial needle in the haystack would be much easier. :shock:



Its mind boggling at times and I guess its why we all get a little frustrated by it.
I agree in principle to collect as much as possible, but I also realise we could be collecting nothing but junk, we wont know until theres a breakthrough.
Its just the flip side of the coin I guess, it could go either way.

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 Post subject: Re: EMF
PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 2:20 pm 
Here's a little bit on the 'hutchinson effect'. it's pertinent to mark's idea about the link of van der graaf generator use and paranormal activity.

http://www.rexresearch.com/hutchisn/hutchisn.htm


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 Post subject: Re: EMF
PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 2:29 pm 
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Thanks for that Scubbins. I'm still going to have a go at making a van der graaf generator when I put my techie head on.

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 Post subject: Re: EMF
PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 2:30 pm 
I've seena few guides as to how to make a small handheld one...

the video's are on youtube i believe. though you'll have to put up with listening to someone speaking who looks as though he hasn't met humans for at least 18 years.


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 Post subject: Re: EMF
PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 2:14 pm 
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maybe he hasnt scubbins,,, maybe an alien himself...but a presence will and has caused temp drops, emf readings ,, when at the keep working with mark ,, we made the temp drop to a certain level, and said that it would stop at a certain temp ,, and it did,??? explanation. :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: EMF
PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 3:41 pm 
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Just to clarify, I did not have anything to do with the temperature drop.

Pam and I were stood in the 'Garrison Room' of Newcastle Keep and we were stood watching the digital thermometer readout. Pam said that the temp was going to drop and a few seconds later the temp did drop (very fractionally). She then said it would drop again, which it did, and then a third time, which it did again.

I pointed out to Pam that the thermometer was taking a new reading at roughly the same intervals as she was saying that it would drop, so she said we'd just wait for a while in that case, which we did and the temp remained constant. After a few minutes had passed Pam said the word 'now' and the temperature dropped again immediately.

Now while I can't say that the temp drop was anything Paranormal or that Pam was affecting the equipment in some way I did find it very interesting. It's a shame the temp drop was only a couple of degrees from start to finish and there had just been more people in the room near to the thermometer prior to this which would have affected the temp as well.

We'll have to do it again in a more controlled way next time we're there Pam, what do you say?

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 Post subject: Re: EMF
PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 12:10 am 
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doktor_phibes wrote:
Just to clarify, I did not have anything to do with the temperature drop.

Pam and I were stood in the 'Garrison Room' of Newcastle Keep and we were stood watching the digital thermometer readout. Pam said that the temp was going to drop and a few seconds later the temp did drop (very fractionally). She then said it would drop again, which it did, and then a third time, which it did again.

I pointed out to Pam that the thermometer was taking a new reading at roughly the same intervals as she was saying that it would drop, so she said we'd just wait for a while in that case, which we did and the temp remained constant. After a few minutes had passed Pam said the word 'now' and the temperature dropped again immediately.

Now while I can't say that the temp drop was anything Paranormal or that Pam was affecting the equipment in some way I did find it very interesting. It's a shame the temp drop was only a couple of degrees from start to finish and there had just been more people in the room near to the thermometer prior to this which would have affected the temp as well.

We'll have to do it again in a more controlled way next time we're there Pam, what do you say?



The other problem is, room temperature is never a constant, so you would have to take several readings and use a control thermometer. Perhaps using digital and IR thermometers also.

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 Post subject: Re: EMF
PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 9:07 am 
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Will do Anth.

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 Post subject: Re: EMF
PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 8:10 pm 
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Anth wrote:
The other problem is, room temperature is never a constant, so you would have to take several readings and use a control thermometer. Perhaps using digital and IR thermometers also.



but severe drops and gains in temperature would certainly stand for something presuming the equipment was definitely not faulty...


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 Post subject: Re: EMF
PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 9:37 am 
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I suppose it would depend on the amount that the temperature fluctuated. The interesting thing about the Keep was that the temp change 'seemed' to be performing to order.


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 Post subject: Re: EMF
PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 11:02 am 
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triplow wrote:
Anth wrote:
The other problem is, room temperature is never a constant, so you would have to take several readings and use a control thermometer. Perhaps using digital and IR thermometers also.



but severe drops and gains in temperature would certainly stand for something presuming the equipment was definitely not faulty...


Yes it would be, but you have to be carefull and have the control readings also.
To make the experiment a success, you have to eliminate "flukes" and if done correctly you are collecting very important evidence.

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 Post subject: Re: EMF
PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 11:17 am 
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hehehehehe no hes not hes still just doing what he was always doing, recording temps in the way he was recording them hehehehehe....interesting that it suddenly goes from being 'recording temps' to 'collecting very important evidence' hehehehehe!!!

What is a sucessful experiment....???One that gives the result wanted by the experimenters....????
Interesting...........

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 Post subject: Re: EMF
PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 12:58 pm 
I think rather a successful experiment would be one which yielded some sort of explanation, paranormal or not, of the temperature fluctuation.

So the gahtering of as much data as possible just gives you more to work through and correlate with the temperature of specific places.


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 Post subject: Re: EMF
PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 1:00 pm 
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Scubbins wrote:
I think rather a successful experiment would be one which yielded some sort of explanation, paranormal or not, of the temperature fluctuation.


Hear hear!

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 Post subject: Re: EMF
PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 1:12 pm 
It's actually an interesting little idea this one. It's got me thinking.

So what we're trying to find out how/why the temperature fluctuates and secondly whether such changes can be affected by those witnessing it?

a control experiment of a thermometer and emf (with data storage capacity) left in a room for a period of time, the longer the better.

Then a naieve participant can be asked to gauge the temperature, ignorant of the fact there's a thermometer and emf doing the same task. Discrepancies between both can then be discussed.

Then the third condition can be an experimental group of someone who knows there's a thermometer recording the data, and also has to guage and record the data himself, also with an emf.



I've heard similar stories about temperature fluctuations being affected by the electromagnetic fields of humans. It sounds like one of those rare situations that could be practically researched.


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 Post subject: Re: EMF
PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 2:02 pm 
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pollen101 wrote:
hehehehehe no hes not hes still just doing what he was always doing, recording temps in the way he was recording them hehehehehe....interesting that it suddenly goes from being 'recording temps' to 'collecting very important evidence' hehehehehe!!!

What is a sucessful experiment....???One that gives the result wanted by the experimenters....????
Interesting...........



Whats the point in collecting the data then?
If you are not going to do it properly you might as well be pissing in the wind.
Without the data you cant even begin to theorise what may be causing it, once you have the data you can then develo further experiments which may or may not lead to an explanation.

On th eother hand you can walk in wave a thingymajig about act like a prick and declare the place has paranormal happening cos the room felt cold.

If you do the later then I ask again, why waste yours and the venues fucking time?

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 Post subject: Re: EMF
PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 2:21 pm 
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interesting answers so far......both of u maybe missing my point from the start..........

This info type of thing, the 'data collecting' in regards every investigation should be done the same way, which is gathered bog standard same way whichever way is thought to be best to do this anyway without saying....rather than basing 'experiements' around something which has already presented it, dog - chasing - tail ....????

That way the information is there anyway when the 'event' happens, no 'hindsight' or attempts to get the same thing again.
If the information isnt always gathered in the same best way possible except when people get something which makes them go back to try and get it again by creating special 'experiments' and conditions what the fuck is the point of doing it in the first place???????

Creating experiemnts to determine outcomes as oppose to gathering information in as many different ways as possible as 'normal' at each and every invo anyway seems a bit odd........stuff like the basic temp/baseline stuff goes wihtout saying dunnit...........????

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 Post subject: Re: EMF
PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 2:26 pm 
If this were called the northern ghost witness forum then you'd have a point. It's a matter of investigation and research isn't it? It's not an attempt to recreate phenomena, rather it's purpose is to study any interesting phenomena to identify their cause.
Else it's just standing about jumping to conclusions.


Last edited by Scubbins on Wed Jun 10, 2009 2:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: EMF
PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 2:30 pm 
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here here scubbins :wink:


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