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 Post subject: Chemtrails or contrails or simple vapour trail
PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 8:18 pm 
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blackster1975 wrote:
Contrails dissipate very quickly as chemtrails linger about in the sky and spread out over a large area, even ex pilots have went on record staing the difference between the two. There have been reports of chemtrails lingering about in the sky for hours.



what do you think?

i say both contrails and vapour trails.
lets discuss and i'll post my views later.

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 Post subject: Re: Chemtrails or contrails or simple vapour trail
PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 8:53 pm 
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Governments have freely admitted that they have sprayed various chemicals into the atmosphere "in the past" (see the post I put in the flu vaccine thread. Original source : http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Artic ... 07,00.html) which could have harmful effects on people below. So whether there is any difference in what we physically see up there is a moot point, really. They have done and no doubt still are, spraying stuff up there. Even if its for something benign like trying to combat Climate Change - they are still at it.

So does that leave a trace? Why not? I remember a few years back hearing aircraft flying over Thornaby for a few hours on one summers morning - looking out, it looked like the same aircraft - but didn't pay much attention to it unitil I went our walking and saw a perfect grid of con / chemtrails up above (from horizon to horizon - about a 10 x 10 grid - perfectly formed) and on flight paths that didn't resemble anything that would go to or from Teesside Airport. True to what Chemtrailers say - throughout the day, they began to spread out over the sky until a blanket of cloud formed which brought rain with it ..

As I said above - there is little doubt they spray stuff up there .. its just whether or not its nasty shit for the people below.

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 Post subject: Re: Chemtrails or contrails or simple vapour trail
PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 10:11 pm 
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in the 80's we were told to keep the horses in on certain days/times cos stuff was being sprayed from planes

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 Post subject: Re: Chemtrails or contrails or simple vapour trail
PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 10:22 pm 
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I believe they are spraying all kinds of shit into the atmosphere, for what reason I can't say it could be like Jay stated to help combat climate change, or it could be something else all I know is I believe it is going on.

I watched a programme about chemtrails a few weeks ago and it showed both chemtrails and contrails and pointed out the differences between the two. It also had interviews with ex pilots who said they are also mystified by what they are seeing.

There are a few documentaries on the subject which are very interesting to watch.


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 Post subject: Re: Chemtrails or contrails or simple vapour trail
PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 11:34 pm 
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I also think it is going on.........what it is I can only guess at tho but my monies on it not being especially wonderful for us.

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 Post subject: Re: Chemtrails or contrails or simple vapour trail
PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 9:35 am 
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OK I am going to post what I posted on an other discussion about Chemtrails.

This was all posted earlier this year.

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This business of chemtrails is nonsense, anyone with a graps of physics and chemistry can easily explain whats happening....the clue is hot gasses meeting very cold air and condensing.....these hot gases come from a marvelous technological invention called the engine, they can come from internal combustion engines or jet engines of all types.
Now we all know planes fly in the sky dont we, so is it any surpirse that these chemtrails appear in the sky? doesnt take a genius to work it out.

Do you people know for instance that jets often dump fuel, this can cause a different type of trail. If a jet has to make an emergency landing it dumps nearly its entire load of fuel before attempting to land and yes Emergencies do happen fairly often it can be from equipment failure to abnormal readings on dials and other sensors.

The next thing people claim about chemtrails is the grid type patterns that occasionally or as I have seen have appeared once. When looking at a plane from the ground its often extremely difficult to guess its height. However as I am sure you are aware there more than ojne plane in the air at any one time. When awaiting their landing slot they can be held in patterns often hundreds of miles from their destination airport....somtimes they are held in international airspace....sometimes flights have to circles or alter their flight plan to delay their arrival time...its all dependsant on whats occuring on the ground or near their destination airport or airfield.

With the amount of people taking photos and logging flight paths and probable destination of aircraft these days....i've even found a website with photos of high level traffic over teesside including 747's transatlantic bound.....it would be highly improbable that the government would be so stupid to release harmfull chemicals into the air. People would be capturing un-refutable evidence on a daily basis.

There are websites where you can get the Aircraft Registration number and look up its owner, there are websites where civilians can check completed and logged flight plans for these aircraft.

I'm afraid I think the same about Chemtrails as I do about those idiots that think the giant E3 AWACS plane is spying on teessiders and not configuring and testing the ILS systems at the local airports.


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Heres a quick lesson:

Clouds form when air is cooled to its dewpoint or the temperature, if the air is cooled, it reaches saturation. Air can reach saturation in a number of ways. The most common way is through lifting.

As a bubble or parcel of air rises it moves into an area of lower pressure (pressure decreases with height). As this occurs the parcel expands. This requires energy, or work, which takes heat away from the parcel. So as air rises it cools. This is called an adiabatic process.
The rate at which the parcel cools with increasing elevation is called the "lapse rate". The lapse rate of unsaturated air (air with relative humidity <100%) is 5.4°F per 1000 feet (9.8°C per kilometer). This is called the dry lapse rate. This means for each 1000 feet increase in elevation, the air temperature will decrease 5.4°F.

Since cold air can hold less water vapor than warm air, some of the vapor will condense onto tiny clay and salt particles called condensation nuclei. The reverse is also true. As a parcel of air sinks it encounters increasing pressure so it is squeezed inward.

This adds heat to the parcel so it warms as it sinks. Warm air can hold more water vapor than cold air, so clouds tend to evaporate as air sinks.

OK this is about clouds but vapour trails from aircraft form in exactly the same way. The heated exhaust gases from the Jet engines quickly cool to their dew point, at altitude say 20,000 the air is that cold they form ice crystals. Many airliners travel up to 40,000ft above that is reserved for military aircraft and when concorde used to fly it could travel in these "lanes".


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I suggest you look at the higher flying aircraft.

If there is little wind at altitude there nothing to move the contrails. They are basically clouds. Are you telling me that clouds only last for a few minutes?

Contrails behind aircraft strecth for many many miles, the length of time they are in existence depends on atmospheric conditions.....just like clouds.



And finally the "leaked" DEFRA paper where it does discuss the possibility of using aerosols to combat climate change adn includes the possibility of additives to AVGAS to permit the release......pay very carefull attention to the drawbacks thought, they almost certainly eliminate the possibilities of the chemical discussed. It seems spraying sea water into clouds would produce a better effect!

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 Post subject: Re: Chemtrails or contrails or simple vapour trail
PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 12:04 pm 
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As I mentioned above Anth .. Governments have admitted that they've sprayed (potentially harmful) things in the atmosphere .. so whether we see contrails or chemtrails is a moot point and there is a danger of throwing the baby out with the bath water if we once more take the hallowed stance of science to explain what we see in the skies and just dismiss it. Nothing to worry about, move along now. They've DONE it and no doubt still do.

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 Post subject: Re: Chemtrails or contrails or simple vapour trail
PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 12:09 pm 
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ah.....but science explains all Jay these days......havent you realised that yet hehehehehe!!!

tut fuckin tut..............

God is dead long live science!!!!!!!!

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 Post subject: Re: Chemtrails or contrails or simple vapour trail
PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 1:05 pm 
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So if these chemicals are being sprayed in the air, why are we not finding damage to crops etc by them. Why are we not finding higher traces of these chemicals in our rivers, oceans and soils?

So far as I can find ONLY GERMANY And the UK said it released particles at altitude, Germany to disrupt radar and these are metals and polymers.
And the MOD performed tests in the 1950's with zinc cadmium sulphide which so far has only been shown as potentially harmfull to humans. These tests stopped in 1964.
Its also worth noting that many of these tests the chemicals were released from ships and towed generators moving along country roads.

Quote:
Occupational and Environmental Medicine 2002;59:13-17; doi:10.1136/oem.59.1.13
Copyright © 2002 by the BMJ Publishing Group Ltd.
Occupational and Environmental Medicine 2002;59:13-17
© 2002 Occupational and Environmental Medicine
ORIGINAL ARTICLE
The risk to the United Kingdom population of zinc cadmium sulfide dispersion by the Ministry of Defence during the "cold war"
P J Elliott1, C J C Phillips2, B Clayton3 and P J Lachmann2

1 Department of Epidemiology and Public Health, Imperial College, University of London, St Mary's Campus, Norfolk Place, London W2 1PG, UK
2 Department of Clinical Veterinary Medicine, University of Cambridge, Cambridge CB3 0ES, UK
3 Faculty of Medicine, University of Southampton, Southampton, UK

Correspondence to:
Correspondence to:
Dr P J Lachmann, Academy of Medical Sciences, 10 Carlton House Terrace, London SW1Y 5AH, UK;
pjl1000@cam.ac.uk

Objectives: To estimate exposures to cadmium (Cd) received by the United Kingdom population as a result of the dispersion of zinc Cd sulfide (ZnCdS) by the Ministry of Defence between 1953 and 1964, as a simulator of biological warfare agents.

Methods: A retrospective risk assessment study was carried out on the United Kingdom population during the period 1953–64. This determined land and air dispersion of ZnCdS over most of the United Kingdom, inhalation exposure of the United Kingdom population, soil contamination, and risks to personnel operating equipment that dispersed ZnCdS.

Results: About 4600 kg ZnCdS were dispersed from aircraft and ships, at times when the prevailing winds would allow large areas of the country to be covered. Cadmium released from 44 long range trials for which data are available, and extrapolated to a total of 76 trials to allow for trials with incomplete information, is about 1.2% of the estimated total release of Cd into the atmosphere over the same period. "Worst case" estimates are 10 µg Cd inhaled over 8 years, equivalent to Cd inhaled in an urban environment in 12–100 days, or from smoking 100 cigarettes. A further 250 kg ZnCdS was dispersed from the land based sites, but significant soil contamination occurred only in limited areas, which were and have remained uninhabited. Of the four personnel involved in the dispersion procedures (who were probably exposed to much higher concentrations of Cd than people on the ground), none are suspected of having related illnesses.

Conclusion: Exposure to Cd from dissemination of ZnCdS during the "cold war" should not have resulted in adverse health effects in the United Kingdom population.


I still say what we see in the skies these days are Contrails and vapour trails. Occasional fuel dumping. Nothing more. Its only conspiracy theorists that say the governments are trying to kill the population. And to what end would that serve them? think realistically what difference would it make if EVERY country in the world tried to dumb down its populace. It would lead to the extinction of the human race and I dont for one moment even begin to think that Everyone in power in this planet would partake in such a scheme.

They have to breathe the air also!

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 Post subject: Re: Chemtrails or contrails or simple vapour trail
PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 1:10 pm 
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pollen101 wrote:
in the 80's we were told to keep the horses in on certain days/times cos stuff was being sprayed from planes



I'll see if any of the farmers I know were informed, after all they had livestock in the fields, many destined for human consumption. I know a dairy farmer too, obviously what his cattle ingest ends up in their milk so there should be some clarification there.

Never heard of anything like this, unless local farmers or large land owners were spraying crops with pesticides. Obviously then there is a risk, but this is usually very localised.

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 Post subject: Re: Chemtrails or contrails or simple vapour trail
PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 1:22 pm 
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It was the farmers who told us, they were the ones who had been informed u nutter hehehehehe!!!

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 Post subject: Re: Chemtrails or contrails or simple vapour trail
PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 1:41 pm 
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pollen101 wrote:
It was the farmers who told us, they were the ones who had been informed u nutter hehehehehe!!!


Yeah and from 1987 onwards I spent a lot of time working on a farm and i have NEVER heard this.

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 Post subject: Re: Chemtrails or contrails or simple vapour trail
PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 1:42 pm 
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How many examples or how many countries do you want tho, Anth? One example and one country is potentially bad enough, especially if its mine and your country!!! But - like I said above - whether its benign or not is the question.

I'm not keen on the De-Population theory myself. Ok, I can understand the reasons why they'd want to do it (it all comes down to control at the end of the day and the PTB have been fascinated with Eugenics for centuries) but I can't fathom any way in which the benefits would be much better than what they have now to make it worth it - unless they are (and they probably are) thinking centuries in advance. So depopulation is a no-go for me - unless its limited specifically to Eugenics and getting rid of what they'd call the undesirables ..

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 Post subject: Re: Chemtrails or contrails or simple vapour trail
PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 1:49 pm 
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I had a horse and kept it with others and certain times we were told by the farmers to keep them in as they had been told planes were spraying stuff...........thats all I know!

But Jay is right Anth, how many examples and countries do you want, 1 is bad enough....does a million make it more real or 'better/worse' in some way?

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 Post subject: Re: Chemtrails or contrails or simple vapour trail
PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 1:53 pm 
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It still doesnt mean that what we see in the skies today are chemtrails.
They are contrails and vapour trails.


Its like saying that because one person admits to seeing a ghost that Ghost do exist.

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 Post subject: Re: Chemtrails or contrails or simple vapour trail
PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 1:58 pm 
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I never said it was (if its my post your on about!)

''in the 80's we were told to keep the horses in on certain days/times cos stuff was being sprayed from planes''

And it doesnt mean they are not either........

They have admitted doing this......which bit about that dont you get?

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 Post subject: Re: Chemtrails or contrails or simple vapour trail
PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 2:18 pm 
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Anth wrote:
Its like saying that because one person admits to seeing a ghost that Ghost do exist.


Thats like saying just because science tells us that ghosts don't exist, that they don't .. Everything is ok!

:wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Chemtrails or contrails or simple vapour trail
PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 2:23 pm 
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everything has always been ok Jay.......you only just noticed?????hehehe!!!

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 Post subject: Re: Chemtrails or contrails or simple vapour trail
PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 3:02 pm 
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pollen101 wrote:
I never said it was (if its my post your on about!)

''in the 80's we were told to keep the horses in on certain days/times cos stuff was being sprayed from planes''

And it doesnt mean they are not either........

They have admitted doing this......which bit about that dont you get?



Objectives: To estimate exposures to cadmium (Cd) received by the United Kingdom population as a result of the dispersion of zinc Cd sulfide (ZnCdS) by the Ministry of Defence between 1953 and 1964


All I have ever said is these days its not chemtrails. Thats just bullshit for the funny in the head brigade, the spotty little twats that are in love with their right (or left) hands.

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 Post subject: Re: Chemtrails or contrails or simple vapour trail
PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 3:05 pm 
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what is bullshit for the blue smarty eating woman tittied population then hehehe?

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 Post subject: Re: Chemtrails or contrails or simple vapour trail
PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 3:09 pm 
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pollen101 wrote:
what is bullshit for the blue smarty eating woman tittied population then hehehe?



Im mentally ill, whats your excuse?

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 Post subject: Re: Chemtrails or contrails or simple vapour trail
PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 3:11 pm 
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everything is ok!

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