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 Post subject: David Icke - Beyond the cutting edge !!
PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 1:16 pm 
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Hehe just watched David Icke - Beyond the cutting edge.

I must say i found it very interesting and informative, some of his views and beliefs sound a bit extreme and way out there at times, but on a whole a lot of it makes sense. There is even a part in it when he talks about Inter dimensional shadow people calling the shots, i wonder if he is talking about the same phenomena of shadow beings we discuss on here :lol:

What are your views on David Icke ?

I know most people call him a crazy person but in my eyes he is allowed to believe in what he thinks is right and is welcome to his own beliefs, i don't believe in everything he says, but i do believe some of it is credible information :wink:

A word of caution to anyone wanting to watch it though it's on for about 7 hours or more, but it is in 6 parts so you can break it up and watch it at leisure.


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 Post subject: Re: David Icke - Beyond the cutting edge !!
PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 1:21 pm 
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I must admit that I am in the camp that thinks he's crazy, but I know Carol is a big fan of his so I bet she'll have something to say.

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 Post subject: Re: David Icke - Beyond the cutting edge !!
PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 2:12 pm 
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A lot of what Icke says concerning the the 5 sense world can be backed up with documented proof - I'm not necessarilly talking about the Illumanati / New World Order (thats more circumstantial evidence) - but the conspiracies surrounding governemt, the people involved in it, the banking system, the structures that are in place that are geared towards our "enslavement" as a race etc etc .. Most of this stuff we actually know ourselves but people just choose not to ackowledge it because its "uncomfortable".

The vast majority of things that Icke has talked about to date has concerned this and a lot of what he said 15 year back has come to pass which in fact spawned a Channel 4 program a couple of years back called Icke : Was he right? (link to part 1 ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGHXksHIakw).

Yes, he does speculate on things such as 911 - more on the events leading up to it (and the people involved in the conspiracey - again, with documented evidence) and the things that happened afterwards rather the actual event ..

But its the other 5% that Icke talks about that gives him such a bad reputation in many peoples eyes. Reptillians running the world, the Queen is Queen Lizzie (in the strictest sense), the nature of reality, dimensional entities etc etc etc ..

In truth, without us getting into specifics, many of the things we may talk about here or elsewhere and many people do believe in (couldn't a ghost be considered a dimensional entity of sorts?). With a little stretch - its very easy to at least understand (if not necessary believe) where Icke is coming from.

Reptiles running the world? Many many people believe that life exists "out there" .. so, evidence aside, the possibility - no matter how small - does exist that they could have come here 1000s of years back and are today running the show from the shadows. Many people in the UFO community talk about the reptillians as an alien race and accept it (if again, without evidence) - so why not take it to the next level?

Yes, to be taking seriously, he needs hard evidence to prove it - but then, so do we with ghosts and so does anyone with anything.

Of course, the biggest problem with Icke is that he went on the Wogan show 19 year back in a turqoise tracksuit and claimed he was the Son of God (although he has since said he was miusunderstood in what he was trying to say .. ) - and yes, he was going through a stage where he'll freely admit the " .. top of his head had been blown off with all the info coming in like a rushing river .. "

If you watch / read some of his early stuff - he explains this period fully and why he was like that.

Is he crazy? No .. Has he had a crazy moment? Yes .. Does he say a lot of things that people find uncomfortable to consider and will quickly dismiss as the ravings of a mad man? Definitely .. Is he right? A lot of it, definitely .. All of it? Who knows - I don't and no body else does either.

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 Post subject: Re: David Icke - Beyond the cutting edge !!
PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 2:18 pm 
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Well maybe I'm being a bit harsh calling him crazy. My knowledge about him basically comes from watching one documentary and the odd article here and there. Yeah he does have a point with some of his conspiracy/government things, the problem is that the Reptile thing kind of takes over in many peoples heads (including mine) and that's all I seem to (wrongly) associate him with.

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 Post subject: Re: David Icke - Beyond the cutting edge !!
PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 2:24 pm 
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One funny thing about David Icke that I can remember is when he was listing the people who were really shapeshifting reptiles, in amongst the Royal Family, Presidents and other world leaders was singer/actor Kris Kristofferson. What's poor old Kris done to upset David? Surely country and western isn't that bad.

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 Post subject: Re: David Icke - Beyond the cutting edge !!
PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 2:29 pm 
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I agree - and some of the things he says makes you frown somewhat .. but, we can't just dismiss something because it doesn't fit in with what we consider "normal" or doesn't fit well with us. Me personally, I like to explore all avenues - even if its crazy shit, because who knows? I'd rather look into something and eventually dismiss it after I've learnt as much as I can about it - then just dismiss it with a pfft from the off and potentially miss out on learning something.

The Reptiles isn't something that Icke woke up with one day and said "I know - I'll says its shape-shifting reptiles! That'll sell a few books!!" .. he claims (and yes, its only his claim) - that over a period of years as his reputation grew - many people came to him with their stories of people shape-shifting to reptiles and back again. It happened so many times as he travelled the world he thought : "Hang on - there may be something in this" and so started to properly investigate it (and he's not the only one - he has "borrowed" research and work from others).

Also - he doesn't actually claim its a physical shape-shift but more a vibrational shape shift (My cousin, for instance, has seen it happen, and he didn't know about Icke at the time, and told me the story a few years back). Its more in how we interpret the information coming into our brains through our eyes .. we're conditioned to see someone when we look at them as we see them (a "normal" human being) - but if something trips in our brain and the information bypasses the normal channels or onto another frequency - we see them as reptillian (Their 'true nature'?). Watch the film They Live as a good explanation of it (which explores the same thing) and is a damn good film to boot (and has one of the best fight scenes ever in it with Rowdy Roddy Piper!!).

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 Post subject: Re: David Icke - Beyond the cutting edge !!
PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 2:31 pm 
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I think the guys a waste of oxygen.

Anyone else with views like his would be fitted with a staight jacket and sent to live in a padded cell.

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 Post subject: Re: David Icke - Beyond the cutting edge !!
PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 2:32 pm 
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As I said - some people would rather just dismiss with a pfft ... :wink:

:mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: David Icke - Beyond the cutting edge !!
PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 2:54 pm 
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I just had a feeling it was gonna be David Icke.

There are grains of truth in most things it's finding the wheat from the chaff that poses the problem.

Alien reptiles .. did you people never see the series "V"

The question is this "Believe or not in part or in whole"based upon your own knowledge of such things,all these questions begin to overlap each other in some way shape or form.

Personally i think it's not beyond the realms of possibility. :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: David Icke - Beyond the cutting edge !!
PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 4:34 pm 
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I remember the first time i had ever heard of David icke and his theories and beliefs, and i thought to myself what a crack pot. But after watching a few of his programmes i have a total different out look about him.

Nobody really knows if some of his more Outragious beliefs are true or not and maybe we will never know, just look at the size of the universe nobody knows whats out there, or what could have came here before the start of civilization :lol: i'm not saying i believe it, but i'm not saying it isn't a possibilty.

All i know is the world we read about in the papers and see on tv is only the world they want us to know :wink:

Come people unclip yourself from the matrix hehe :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: David Icke - Beyond the cutting edge !!
PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 4:39 pm 
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The majority of people who slate Icke (and others of is ilk) have never picked up one of his books or watched one of his conferences - not all, many do and come to the same conclusions and fair play to them, but the majority - yet they've already formed an opinion of the guy based on media stories and what people down the pub say .. sadly, thats just indicitive of the world we live in.

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 Post subject: Re: David Icke - Beyond the cutting edge !!
PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 4:40 pm 
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Guilty your honour.

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 Post subject: Re: David Icke - Beyond the cutting edge !!
PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 4:50 pm 
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Its actually well worth it - even if come the end your still of the opinion he's a nut job its still interesting. I'd recommend one of his conferences over a book because if nothing else Icke is good at presenting it (although they are 7 hour jobbies as Blacky says due to the amount of information) .. something like whats suggested here or the Secrets of the Matrix - although both will probably contain the same info.

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 Post subject: Re: David Icke - Beyond the cutting edge !!
PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 4:51 pm 
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Get a rope.... :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: David Icke - Beyond the cutting edge !!
PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 4:51 pm 
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Ok, I'll give him a go.

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 Post subject: Re: David Icke - Beyond the cutting edge !!
PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 9:03 am 
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The problem is most people wont read books on subjects they just are not interested in.

Plus if you read a book by Icke, you would then need to read about quantum physics, chemistry, biology and slowy but surely you would realise that many of his beliefs are total and utter crap.

As reasonable as they may sound to a leyman, if you think that travel across the vast distances of space is possible in a single lifetime, then you are deluded. Please see a previous thread where I posted that it would be neigh on impossible for Aliens to have visited Earth and its due to the distances involved and the energy and time needed to travel across those distances.

As for consipracy theories, whilst many can be interesting to read, some border on the ridiculous. You just need to look about on the internet and realise that care in the community is a huge failure (that was nothing at all to do with the illuminati)

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 Post subject: Re: David Icke - Beyond the cutting edge !!
PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 10:53 am 
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Well like i said nobody knows what is out there and science can't explain everything, there is no way i'm believing the fact that we are all alone in this universe :lol: but those are your views and these are mine, were both entitled to our opinions, and i respect yours.

We might never know the true meaning of this type of stuff.


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 Post subject: Re: David Icke - Beyond the cutting edge !!
PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 11:18 am 
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blackster1975 wrote:
Well like i said nobody knows what is out there and science can't explain everything, there is no way i'm believing the fact that we are all alone in this universe :lol: but those are your views and these are mine, were both entitled to our opinions, and i respect yours.

We might never know the true meaning of this type of stuff.



Ahhh now I didnt say we were alone. I simply said we havent been visited by alien life that designed and built a space craft and travelled for thousands of years at the speed of light to reach us, especially when they couldnt have known life existed on this single planet in this small solar system.

The Sun is about 93 million miles from the earth. The star nearest to the Sun is Proxima Centauri. Astronomers measure the distance between stars in units called light-years. A light-year equals 5.88 million million miles (9.46 million million kilometers). This is the distance light travels in one year at a speed of 186,282 miles per second (299,792 kilometers per second). Proxima Centauri is 4.3 light-years from the Sun. It is a dim red star in the constellation of Centaurus that lies at a distance of over 40 million million kilometers, some 270,000 times greater than the distance between the earth and the sun.

The Andromeda galaxy (M31) is 2.8 million light years
Thats 2.8 Million years travelling at the speed of light!

Astronomers have discovered a galaxy some 13.2 billion light years away – the most distant galaxy ever seen. Light from this galaxy, known as Abell 1835 IR1916, provides information about the universe when it was just 3% of its current age.

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 Post subject: Re: David Icke - Beyond the cutting edge !!
PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 11:31 am 
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We might never know what is out there :lol: I still believe we have lots of undiscovered life in our own oceans, in the darkest deepest parts that is.


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 Post subject: Re: David Icke - Beyond the cutting edge !!
PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 12:19 pm 
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Based on what we currently know you're correct Anth .. there is absolutely no way we could travel to distant stars and galaxies .. there's no way it would be worth the time, effort, energy and money to set up an expedition to Alpha Centauri let alone to a far distant star even if we believed, no - knew life existed there .. utterly pointless because we don't know how we would get there in a timely and efficient fashion.

We don't know.

But saying we don't know today is totally different to saying we won't know tomorrow .. or 10 years down the line .. or a 100, a 1000, 10000 or a million years.

We've went from the best transport method available of riding a horse if we wanted to go anywhere to flying to the moon and back in 3 days in a tin box and some duct tape in less than 100 years.

Have we now stopped learning things? What will we know or be capable of in another 100 years? Or 1000? Or, yes, a million years hence?

And whats a million years compared to the 14 billion years the universe has existed? Nothing.

Its entirely possible - and in universal time, its just a blink of an eye - that an alien race formed, evolved and got to the stage we are at now a million years ago and are today a million years more advanced than us. Truthfully, it wouldn't be a big deal .. arguably, we could say a billion years more advanced ..

If we say that what we know today concerning propulsion methods and interstellar travel (and all the apparent difficulties associated with it) is the be all and end all and we're never going to learn anything new whether we exist for only another 100 years or another billion years - then yes, we and anybody else out there are never going to visit each other.

But, we all know thats bollox. We know we're going to learn more. We know we're going to make more discoveries. We know a bright new idea or way of thinking will form sometime and a whole new understanding will emerge.

Its always happened and it always will. Ok, we can't plan the future based on things we don't know yet and we can't talk about doing things in the future if we haven't got a clue how we'd do it - that would be silly - but just because we don't know or can't yet, it would be silly of us also to assume anybody out there - if they exist - don't know it and can't do it either especially if they've had a head start on us ..

We've come a long way in just over 100 years .. but that is absolutely nothing in the grand scheme of things. Science can only talk about what is. And today 'what is' tells us we can't and then that has to naturally apply to all out there.

But truthfully ask any physicist to say, hand on heart, does todays "what is" = never or will todays "what is" still apply in a 100 years let alone a million and he or she will say no.

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 Post subject: Re: David Icke - Beyond the cutting edge !!
PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 1:35 pm 
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But the problems exist for any race be they human or otherwise.

And that is, even if you could produce enough energy and could manufacture a fuel that could be sustained indefinately giving this required energy (even nuclear energy is not enough), in a ship that could be built realistically, then you would still have the years and years before you reached our solar system, then theres the chances that they knew before departing that there was life on earth, or that they intercepted our modern radio signals etc.

Going back a thousand years or so in our history unless they visited every single planet on the way......Highly unlikely.......then they would be looking for a needle in a haystack.


I dont doubt theres life out there, what I do say is I doubt they have walked amongst us.

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 Post subject: Re: David Icke - Beyond the cutting edge !!
PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 1:57 pm 
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But your basing that on conventional means .. the theory of what we'll call "warp speed" already exists which will allow us to all intents and purposes travel faster than light (altho -not travelling faster than light if you know what I mean) - yes, the energy requirements are mind-boggling but the theory exists .. we "just" need to find a way to harness the energy to utilize it (or experiment to begin with, obviously).

The Kardashev Scale has already laid out a theoretical model of civilisation and their command of energy. It breaks civilisation into 3 types. Type 1 civilisations can fully harness the energy on their own planet (ie, natural resources). Type 2 civilisations can fully harness the power of a star (and not just sticking a solar panel on your roof) .. Type 3 civilisations can fully harness the power of a galaxy such as black holes and other wildly energetic things out there.

We haven't even reached the starting point of a Type 1 civilisation. Ok, its speculative and only theory and we have nothing to apply it to other than ourselves - but given how low we are on that scale - what will we be able to do when we can harness the power and energy contained within a black hole (natural or man made)? I'm not a physicist - I don't know what the implications of this would be - but I do know its a zillion times more powerful than a tank full of decayed trees. Enough to warp space?

Yes, because black holes do.

It doesn't mean there ARE others out there that are travelling around .. but the possibility exists and they have been and are flying around .. yes, we have no evidence .. but doesn't automatically mean its not there.

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 Post subject: Re: David Icke - Beyond the cutting edge !!
PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 2:00 pm 
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A YouTube Video on this from Dr. Michio Kaku - the co-founder of string theory :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHbnM_42mQE

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 Post subject: Re: David Icke - Beyond the cutting edge !!
PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 2:15 pm 
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Jay wrote:
But your basing that on conventional means .. the theory of what we'll call "warp speed" already exists which will allow us to all intents and purposes travel faster than light (altho -not travelling faster than light if you know what I mean) - yes, the energy requirements are mind-boggling but the theory exists .. we "just" need to find a way to harness the energy to utilize it (or experiment to begin with, obviously).

The Kardashev Scale has already laid out a theoretical model of civilisation and their command of energy. It breaks civilisation into 3 types. Type 1 civilisations can fully harness the energy on their own planet (ie, natural resources). Type 2 civilisations can fully harness the power of a star (and not just sticking a solar panel on your roof) .. Type 3 civilisations can fully harness the power of a galaxy such as black holes and other wildly energetic things out there.

We haven't even reached the starting point of a Type 1 civilisation. Ok, its speculative and only theory and we have nothing to apply it to other than ourselves - but given how low we are on that scale - what will we be able to do when we can harness the power and energy contained within a black hole (natural or man made)? I'm not a physicist - I don't know what the implications of this would be - but I do know its a zillion times more powerful than a tank full of decayed trees. Enough to warp space?

Yes, because black holes do.


Well the energy "within" a black hole is gravitational. Its not a hole either, its just seen as a space in space because the gravitational pull is so strong even light cannot escape it.
In fact gravity is so strong it would atomise every material known to man including man himself. So to harness this energy would require some sort of "forcefield" that was generated using even more energy than produced by the blackhole and that would be counterproductive (to use more energy to harvest energy of less value)

The Theory is that because it can warp light, it can warp time, but as it says its only a theory.

One way of traveling faster through space is using an idea called warp drive. In present physics theory, no material object such as a spacecraft can travel faster than the speed of light. In the theory of relativity mainly developed by Albert Einstein, matter like electrons and space crafts cannot travel faster than the speed of light. According to the theory of relativity as an object’s motion speed increases, its mass increases. At slow speeds this mass increase is not noticeable, but as the object motion speed approaches the speed of light, its mass increases dramatically. There is an equation in modern physics theory that relates an objects mass to its motion speed. The equation is: m=M divided by[1-(vdivided by c)2 ] 0.5 . The variable M is the rest mass of the spacecraft when it is not moving.

Variable m is the mass of the object that is traveling at fast speed v and the constant c is the speed of light in vacuum space. This increase in mass as the object speed increases limits how fast the space craft move. As the speed v approaches the speed of light c the relativistic mass becomes to large to allow the space craft to travel faster than the speed of light c.

The theory of relativity also says that as an objects motion speed increases the rate of time flow of the object or spacecraft slows down. A pilot in a space craft traveling at fast speeds would age slower than a person on earth moving at a slow speed. This slowing down of the rate of time flow is called time dilation. This slowing down of time is assumed to be a property of space in the object itself not a property of matter. The changing of time flow rate due to the increase in motion speed in space enables space and time not to be described as separate things.
The relativity equation for time dilation is : t=T×[1-(vdivided by c)2]0.5, where T is the time elapse in a slow moving object such as the earth, and t is the time elapsed in a fast moving mass speed v.

The difference in elapse time of t and T is time dilation. Einstein mathematics may indicate that the laws of physics themselves resemble mathematical objects in a four dimensional space.
Curved space-time is also called Riemannian geometry which is a maths which involves working with curvature in many dimensions. Space affects time, so they are interrelated.
Now space is called space-time, because time and space are not separate things. Space-time can be thought of as having four dimensions; the three dimensions of ordinary three dimensional space and one the dimension of time. We can only imagine a portion three dimensional space easily; seeing some space as having four dimensions is difficult to visualize.

Gravity can pull objects or masses to each other. Masses likes the earth or a space craft emit gravity. In relativity theory, gravity is assumed to be a curved space-time or warped space-time. A mass in space-time curves the space-time in the mass and around the mass to produce gravity.

Does that make sense......my brain hurts

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 Post subject: Re: David Icke - Beyond the cutting edge !!
PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 3:00 pm 
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I don't believe science holds all the answers, yes they are extremely advanced in certain fields, but they cant even cure the common cold :lol: never mind cancer, aids and a few other horrible illnesses. They are too busy finding ways to kill us all , with advanced weapon systems ect.

It takes a smart man too develop a nuclear bomb but not a wise one :wink:


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