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 Post subject: Re: what is a witch?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 1:06 pm 
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Theres very few true Goths out there.

Emo's are just pathetic little creatures. The Emo guys are more girly than goth guys and thats sometimes hard to do.

Emo music is very different to goth music too although as with all music its often listened to by both.
Emo seems to have captured some of the stereotypical goth things too, such as self harm etc. In reality these are the kids that woulda been grunge back in 1991, they would have been glam in the 70's and probably hair metal and or new romantics in the 80's

me? I'm metal and hardcore punk through and through and Emo's are just little freaks to me. Dont mind goths, cos most goth chicks look very hot. But when they give themselves vampire names I tend to make fun of them. I had a goth mate that insisted on being called Armand...I always called him Dale much to his annoyance. It made me really uncool with his little gothy friends too but then my goths die t-shirt didnt go down too well either lol.


Anyway a witch to me is not wiccan, thats just some hippy bullshit stuff that people get into in college and some carry on. Thinking it makes them cool or something. I come across it quite often especially when i go to festivals etc. To me no true witch is going to walk around dripping in celtic symbols and advertising and screaming at people that they are a witch...as I've seen wiccans doing. The one thing I do like about wiccan is their hand fasting ceremony though, thats kinda cool.

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 Post subject: Re: what is a witch?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 3:02 pm 
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Anth wrote:
To me no true witch is going to walk around dripping in celtic symbols and advertising and screaming at people that they are a witch...as I've seen wiccans doing.


Ahh .. the old "wolf in sheeps clothing" huh, Anth? Not the ones you expect .. Which does kinda fall into my experience. I've met a lot of people in my time who claim to be what this thread is calling a "witch" - generally, someone involved in magick .. 90% of them are what your describing .. Like anything in life - if you have to advertise it, then your not.

People can buy into what they want and express themselves in whatever fashion they like, I don't have an issue with that, go for it .. but a bloke in a dress is still a bloke whichever way you try and look at it ..

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 Post subject: Re: what is a witch?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 7:06 pm 
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doktor_phibes wrote:
I must confess that blubird annoyed me with her "Todays "goths" are more Emo's I think thats where your getting confused" line.

What i was trying to say there Dok was that most people see goth as being what I consider to be emo these days. They look at someone in black jeans, red/purple black stripy tops with black eyeliner and belts around there hips and white faces and assume thats gothic. But its not. To me thats emo. True goth is what you will see in whitby, i know i keep harping on about that place but for my era goths its mecca and the only place where you can feel at ease when dressed properly!

Oh and Blubird, I didn't realise you were a Goth, be sure to check out my magazine - Unscene if you haven't already! Issues come with free CD's and everything! (plug plug) :wink:


Yes I am a goth, like I say always have been and always will be. But I do have to say that the type of goth I am is the victorian style. Flowing dresses, corsets, gloves etc etc. Not a bit of black eyeliner unless im going new age goth LOL
I dont dress in the flowing styles that often because its more "weird" to people than the black eyeliner goth!
To see someone walking down the street in "new age" goth apparal is hard enough for normal folks to take but walking down the road in vintage victorian is just to much now adays. Except when in whitby and then its a free for all LOL

Thing is I think alot of people get confused with goth because there are so many different versions of it.
If you go to whitby you wont see any goth with black eyeliner! Its all very victorian and very romantic.
I think goth like you say has subcultures and there are loads of different versions.

Pam as for saying you cant be goth and pagan, well Im not sure thats true. Many of the goths I know are free spirits which is why they dress the way they do and follow the culture, which i think is what being pagan is all about is it not!

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 Post subject: Re: what is a witch?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 7:25 pm 
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My idea of real goths.

Image

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"new age goths"

Image


Emo

Image


You see all very different but lumped into the same description.

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 Post subject: Re: what is a witch?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 8:45 pm 
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You know .. the lengths they must go to up in the pics above .. i just .. don't think .. I could be arsed .. seems like too much of an effort for me!

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 Post subject: Re: what is a witch?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 9:10 pm 
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I know Jay, most of the time i cant be arsed either LOL

But I do tend to wear mainly black anyway so i look the part even in normal clothes LOL

Its the make up i cant be arsed with either, plus when you go out it runs off your face as soon as you start to get hot LOL
You shoudl see some of them coming out of the clubs late at night, they look like the living dead LOL maybe thats a look they want though LOL

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 Post subject: Re: what is a witch?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 9:42 am 
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sorry bluebird but i dont think i ever said that pagan and goth were different i said there was a similarity. but could not like jay states be bothered to have to go to all that trouble to show people what i was..... stay with my own cloths and skin.goths might be free, well they certainly do look it......... but like you have said the dont have any religion,, pagans do,,,,,,, nature and laws and brilliant festivals. and i dont feel the need to dress in any particular colour,as long as i feel good.. as you do in black... although i am partial to a bit black myself hehe :shock: :D


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 Post subject: Re: what is a witch?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 2:02 pm 
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When I went to the Roman Baths last year with Claire, myself and Dok met up with her beforehand and she'd been to one of her Mother-Fooking-Slum-Fest gigs and she was done up in all her gear and had all her eyes painted in a weird and wonderful way .. now, as a piece of art, it looked spot on all brightly coloured, patterned and shaped etc - but I asked her : How can you be arsed? I don't think she gave me a satisfactory answer .. :D .. so come on Claire ..

Personally, I don't understand fashion or even wearing types of clothes for a particular event or situation. Despite constantly being asked / ordered .. I can count on one hand the number of times I've worn trousers, shirt and tie for work or an interview for instance. Pair a jeans will do me fine. Constantly I was haranged by people that I " .. have to .. " .. Why? Who said? " .. we do .. we pay your wages .. " .. Yeah, to do my job, not take part in a friggin fashion show .. Does me wearing a shirt and tie mean I do a better job? Personally, I'd rather be the part then merely look the part .. so stick that in your pipe - I detest all that style over substance rubbish.

So when it comes to "fashion" .. I can't be arsed with it. I've lived through the flares, skins, punk, mods, romantics, joey, goth, rap, chav and no doubt the emo phases and not once ever been remotely interested in dressing like anyone else. I wear whatever is on the floor nearest to my bed when I wake up - if its "in fashion" at the time, so be it ..

So - for Blu and Dok as Goths or anyone else with a fashion .. Why? If Blu you like the Victorian dresses and such .. why? Just like the look? Something erotic about being trussed up in corset? Or is it a case of following our (music) idols? Cos David Beckham wears Gucci - others have to? That's something I've never understood .. So any elightenment?

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 Post subject: Re: what is a witch?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 2:21 pm 
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My fashion consists of:-

Jeans

T-shirts either offensive or with a band name on it

Dr marten boots
or Vans trainers
Or some big steel toe capped boots that are comfy as hell and I wear em to work and when in the pub.

Sometimes I wear jeans and a short sleeved shirt.


At work I have to wear trousers and either a short ot polo shirt, So I wear a polo shirt.

I alsways get Goth or Mosher shouted at me, even though half the time I look liek a skater....or should that be Sk8tr boi ?????

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 Post subject: Re: what is a witch?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 2:47 pm 
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I must admit that I don't get all 'gothed up' on a daily basis, as it takes far too much time and effort. I usually find those goths that do are more interested in making a statement than feeling comfortable.

I must confess however that when I'm out clubbing, Djing or at an event such as Whitby I do enjoy getting dressed up. I'm drawn to a lot of gothic fashions (especially on the ladies) and I feel good wearing it. It also helps when trying to attract female goths.

I think most people enjoy dressing up occasionally (goth or not), except total squares like Jay that is. :P

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 Post subject: Re: what is a witch?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 2:51 pm 
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well anth sk8ter boi... you sound like my son joe ...... long hair down to his waist ,,, jeans,, named bands tee shirts, skateboard when younger but the dam expensive ones...vans or etenies shoes etc....guitar in one hand and a can in the other,,,, but he is brill dont swear ,, and has polite manners, and all chav's hate him.. as he can do something with his life.work.


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 Post subject: Re: what is a witch?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 2:56 pm 
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im more into the bask andstocking thing when going out,,,,,,,,,,,, and the dark eyes,,,,,,,but like people say its what they prefere :lol: :lol: :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: what is a witch?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 2:59 pm 
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pam-ngi wrote:
well anth sk8ter boi... you sound like my son joe ...... long hair down to his waist ,,, jeans,, named bands tee shirts, skateboard when younger but the dam expensive ones...vans or etenies shoes etc....guitar in one hand and a can in the other,,,, but he is brill dont swear ,, and has polite manners, and all chav's hate him.. as he can do something with his life.work.



I have razor shaved hair (completely bald)
And a goatee beard.

Cant skate but I do play guitar oh and I swear a bit.....well more than a bit actually......more like profusely.

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 Post subject: Re: what is a witch?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 3:17 pm 
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hahahahahahahahahahaha anth well a bit like joe :D :D


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 Post subject: Re: what is a witch?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 3:31 pm 
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doktor_phibes wrote:
I think most people enjoy dressing up occasionally (goth or not), except total squares like Jay that is. :P


Ha! No - not a square .. I just don't see the point or see it being worth the effort! I went to a funeral a few months back and my mam was there - she kicked right off at me for wearing Jeans .. "Why? I'm not the one being buried ..."".. I just think a lot of people tend to dress up in certain ways because its expected of them and not because they want to (not necessarilly talking 'fashion' here - or then, maybe, to fit in with the people we are with??) ..

I had a chat years ago with a bouncer at a nightclub who wouldn't let me in cos I had a pair of jeans on - fortunately, he was an "ok" bouncer and not the type to slap you if you talk to them and I asked him : "How long would this dress code rule last if everyone who turned up at the club wore jeans ..? " .. He said : "About 5 minutes" .. So we do these things because others expect us to do it .. as soon as we say "no" .. they give in. So he did - and I went in and got pissed! :lol:

So is it the same with fashion? Dok - you say you get all dressed up if you go to Whitby .. is that because you like to or because you'll look out of place if you didn't? Or a bit of both?

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 Post subject: Re: what is a witch?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 4:01 pm 
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Jay wrote:
[Dok - you say you get all dressed up if you go to Whitby .. is that because you like to or because you'll look out of place if you didn't? Or a bit of both?


It's because I like to, nothing at all to do with looking out of place. I've looked out of place for much of my life and it doesn't bother me. Whitby is also a pretty 'safe' environment for goths which is another bonus.

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 Post subject: Re: what is a witch?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 8:22 pm 
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Yeah i agree with Anth on this aswell. I like dressing up cos its what i feel right in. Although most people stare at you for being different. But when you go to whitby its totally different! You get stared at for not dressing up LOL

I used to wear my goth skirsts and dresses all the time but i just throw on my jeans when i come home and thats that LOL
If im going anywhere though i will get goth'd up cos I love wearin the stuff.

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 Post subject: Re: what is a witch?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 8:27 pm 
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Wow this has gone waaaay off topic.


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 Post subject: Re: what is a witch?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 9:03 pm 
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why are you all obsessed with labels i dont fit into any of the above ,im me and thats it. i have my beliefs and they are more the old ways before relign was invented. true pagans dont need to dress in a certain way, or listen to a type of music, they are themselves but follow there beliefs. that is it, a pagan can be a goth,a emo, a punk or whatever they want , but being either of the above does not make you pagan :)


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 Post subject: Re: what is a witch?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 9:30 am 
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derek wrote:
why are you all obsessed with labels i dont fit into any of the above ,im me and thats it. i have my beliefs and they are more the old ways before relign was invented. true pagans dont need to dress in a certain way, or listen to a type of music, they are themselves but follow there beliefs. that is it, a pagan can be a goth,a emo, a punk or whatever they want , but being either of the above does not make you pagan :)


If you go back to my first post on here I mentioned that people seem to shout and scream what they believe they are, such as wiccans dripping in celtic symbols etc. Its my view that these are not true wiccans, they are into it to be "fashionable" or to make themselves look different.

These days labels are common because its what people use to describe others. For example why say oh he's 6' tall, long black hair, wears big boots and weird jackets, when you can say, he's a bit of a goth.

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 Post subject: Re: what is a witch?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 9:32 pm 
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Jay wrote:

So - for Blu and Dok as Goths or anyone else with a fashion .. Why? If Blu you like the Victorian dresses and such .. why? Just like the look? Something erotic about being trussed up in corset? Or is it a case of following our (music) idols? Cos David Beckham wears Gucci - others have to? That's something I've never understood .. So any elightenment?


Ummm well its like this Jay!

I love the victorian dresses and corsets, i love dressing in them when i can be bothered LOL
Its about being as close to the culture as i can get in my own little world LOL
I dont have any friends round here who are into goth as i am so i very rarely get dressed up here in my home town. As i say its more when im with my friends.
The thing about it for me though is the look and yes i have to admit it is very erotic being dressed like that!
For me its not a case of music either, because to be honest i dont know many true gothic bands. The music i love is nothing to do with goth its more metaller LOL

So for me its the look the culture and the romance of that era.

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 Post subject: Re: what is a witch?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 9:44 pm 
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Yeah .. thats fair enough .. but still doesn't go deep enough for me!! :D .. Ok, maybe its not a fair question to ask you as you don't do it for the helluva it but only on "special occasions" yeah? But there are people who dress in the most outrageous costumes on a day to day basis and see it as a way of life and that I don't really understand ..

I often look at TV / Films about period dramas and before and the gentry are done up to the nines in all this fancy gear and it may look good .. but, jeez, the effort of it! Well I suppose in those days they had nothing better to do so why not??

I dunno .. I suppose its a question that can spread out much wider wondering why we think the way we do generally ..

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 Post subject: Re: what is a witch?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 9:59 pm 
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LOL i thought youd have realised by now im not that deep LOL

Its hard to actually explain it though Jay.

I think it has alot to do with my upbringing and wanting to rebel against everything my mum and dad stood for. They werent horrible parents dont get me wrong but the one thing they didnt want was some kind of hell child, which i ultimately turned out to be LOL

Being into the music i was into at that time, The Cure, The Damned etc was not something my mum and dad liked.
And with listening to the Cure back in the 80's i got drawn into vampires and ghosts etc. Its really hard to put across on here actually, i think it needs disucssing over a pint or two LOL

I think SOME people who dress like that all the time are actually more putting on a show, and probably work somewhere where they can get away with it or its required. Most goths that i know dont dress like that day to day because its just not practical.
You get away with wearing jeans at work, but i dont think a victorian dress and corset number would work very well in the dental practice i work in LOL

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 Post subject: Re: what is a witch?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 7:51 pm 
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Im a pagan. Have been most of my life. Im 33. But people always think im a witch. If i tell someone im a pagan they usually shout "burn her shes a witch" whilst they are rolling around laughing. Silly people! :D


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 Post subject: Re: what is a witch?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 12:10 pm 
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I know what you mean. All witches are pagan, but all pagans aren't witches.

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