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 Post subject: Re: Criticism
PostPosted: Sun May 31, 2009 10:35 pm 
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surprisingly enough - I couldn't agree more .. :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: Criticism
PostPosted: Sun May 31, 2009 10:41 pm 
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which bit Jay

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 Post subject: Re: Criticism
PostPosted: Sun May 31, 2009 11:04 pm 
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pollen101 wrote:
fuckin conciousness load of shite no one knows exactly what it is no one can quantify or say what qualifies normal conciousness aint no such thing a usual fluctuation of in and out of different altered startes seems to be what constitutes this and people persuming they are experiencing the same things but just get a few peoples takes on the same fuckin event and you'll see that whilst they will have similar things the experiences are often different for each person its all fuckin shite we have no idea what fuckin normal is so how the fuck can we start to look at something outside of normal hehehe like I keep saying normal dont fuckin exist so how the fuck can the paranormal hehehehe!
All this 'investigating' shite all this bloody going to a place for a night then deeming it haunted or not is absolute fuckin shite we have no understanding of ourselves to begin with hehehehehe so how the fuck can we begin to 'interpret' and 'explain' things when the tools we are using to do this IE OUR FUCKIN SELVES we dont understand hehehehehehehe!!!!

Ah Jay this aint fun its repetative

if ghosts fuckin exist let em come forth and slap us in the face and say oi daft cunts we're here and do things so we can all see and hear them etc.
seems a bit pointless and eliteist otherwise dunnit, being a ghost loitering about our 'realm' otherwise dunnit......

PEOPLE WILL ALWAYS SEE AND HEAR AND BELIEVE EXACTLY WHAT THEY FYCUCKIN WANT TOO.THE REST IS JUST POLITICS heheeheheheheheheheheehe!!!



Hey I do cos I am as smart as womens tits.

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 Post subject: Re: Criticism
PostPosted: Sun May 31, 2009 11:21 pm 
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Anth - (blows a kiss)

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 Post subject: Re: Criticism
PostPosted: Sun May 31, 2009 11:29 pm 
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pollen101 wrote:
which bit Jay


When the crap is cut out from both sides - thats all thats left ... people will believe whatever they want to believe and the rest is just politics and posturing ..

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 Post subject: Re: Criticism
PostPosted: Sun May 31, 2009 11:56 pm 
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what do you think that says about the relevancy of any of this investigaing malarky then?

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 Post subject: Re: Criticism
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 12:20 am 
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Investigations are important as someone will always demand evidence and proof and somebody independent needs to offer whatever is found in an unbiased fashion.

But - as you say - people will always believe what they want to believe anyway and no amount of evidence or proof or rationale explanation - if found or presented - will be enough.

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 Post subject: Re: Criticism
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 12:25 am 
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u hit the nail on the head there in where I was going with that then Jay hehehehe

''somebody independent needs to offer whatever is found in an unbiased fashion''

which is what I mean totally....to do this however unbiased anyone is it requires motivation of somekind.....so therefore a bias of somekind, so like I've said before although not online I dont think this would be best done by someone who has no interest in this at all and finds it totally boring,but will still collate and present the 'findings'.....but also what I mean is the fuckin 'evidence' will be fuckin 'biased' to begin with hehehehehehehe!!!

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 Post subject: Re: Criticism
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 12:35 am 
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All evidence will be biased towards the view of the person presenting it. Its an in-escapable fact - we are only human afterall. Which of course is the basis of my Cherry Picking argument .. confirmation bias .. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias) .. and is probably THE most important aspect any investigator needs to overcome - believer, sceptic, non-believer, debunker or cynic - before investigating. Sadly, from all sides, most don't.

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 Post subject: Re: Criticism
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 12:38 am 
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A good quote on there from Tolstoy :

The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him

Which sums up both sides of the argument nicely me thinks .. :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: Criticism
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 12:40 am 
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exactly but my point is what is the point of anyone with the slightest interest in this investigating it????

ah Jay you are going bACK INTO that shite I'm on about where o go from herw with it not rehashing the same old people saying thier points stuff which has been done on these threads fuckin loads!!!

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 Post subject: Re: Criticism
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 12:51 am 
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There is no real "point" in some ways. Even if the goal is to present evidence to the world - nothing short of a ghost captured Ghostbusters style - will be enough to convince.

So, we come back to personal experience and knowing. I personally couldn't care less if you or anyone else believed me or not if I had experienced things that convinced me that ghosts and life after death were real or, if I found out it was all one big sham. But thats just my personal view. Others want to spread the word and - for or against - convince people of their view. Each of us have our own motivation.

Mine is one of exploration and discovery for my own self. And thats using every tool available to me - accepted by the masses or not. I'll use science where its needed, I'll use investigative techniques when required and other times I'll just sit and use my intuition if it feels right. I go where the information, experience and evidence leads me - even if thats into areas that are uncomfortable for myself or others. I don't care - I just want to know for my own selfish needs.

As for others - thats up to them based on their own motivations.

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 Post subject: Re: Criticism
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 12:56 am 
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so you'll cherry pick to suit.............

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 Post subject: Re: Criticism
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 12:58 am 
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No - absolutely the opposite. I'll go where my experiences, information and evidence lead .. even if its into areas that go against my own deep down preferred wants or desires.

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 Post subject: Re: Criticism
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 1:02 am 
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but like u said we all cherry pick so thats just what u will be doing regardless of what u dress it up as

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 Post subject: Re: Criticism
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 1:08 am 
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Yes we all cherry pick - hence why I have a non fussed attitude towards it. I seriously don't care if it ends up as dead people or things purely in our mind - I'm not fussed either way just as long as I know which.

Ok, I'm not immune from it and if I do have a deep rooted preferred conclusion then it will manifest along the way - hence why I triple question everything whether its "right" or just what I want.

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 Post subject: Re: Criticism
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 1:10 am 
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dont matter how many times u triple or million quadrupley question things u cherry pick i cherry pick we all cherry pick why are we doing this what is the point from an 'unbiased investigative' purpose???????????

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 Post subject: Re: Criticism
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 1:19 am 
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But questioning does slim down the occassions significantly.

In my opinion, the point for most is to satisfy their own judgement and / or seeking confirmation of what they believe.

But, as I said above - each of us have our own motivation and each is as valid as the next one. Theres no right or wrong way to find answers. There may be preferred methods - but again thats up the individual. But driving us all is a simple "need to know" .. we can dress it up as we want in our preferred dress - science, faith or belief - it boils down, whichever method, to a need to know.

If your wanting anything more speficic than that then rephrase your question!! :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: Criticism
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 9:40 am 
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Phew made it to the end of that lot. Nowt like a bit of light reading for first thing on a monday morning :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Criticism
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 9:47 am 
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rephrase my question how???
you are repeating the obvious yet again Jay, I think most if not all people on here agree with that as other threads/posts have shown.
More specific on what???I asked the question answer it how u like be as specific as u like I aint gonna put words in your mouth hehehehehe!!!

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 Post subject: Re: Criticism
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 9:47 am 
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This is a new book that has just come out and sounds very interesting.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Parapsychology- ... 1585011088

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 Post subject: Re: Criticism
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 10:14 am 
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just read the reader reviews, interesting Mark.
One thing which is really starting to fuck me right off tho is all this sceptic/believer shite, seems people are more interested in themselves and 'thier' way than what they are actually doing same old same old fucks sake...........these threads on here get the most detailed and intense posts, the sceptics/believer ones that says enough dunnit!!!!

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 Post subject: Re: Criticism
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 10:24 am 
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True true but I think this sort of debate is a lot more interesting than the usual 'Real' or 'Fake' bollocks. What I find interesting about this book is that it is written by an academic and is actually looking at ultra-scepticism and the psychology behind it. Something that doesn't happen often.

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 Post subject: Re: Criticism
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 10:34 am 
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I used to think it was interesting Mark but after reading the sme things from the same people myself included seems to me its more of a case of the same old shite of people saying thier soap box stuff on the subject and after hearing the same thing for fuckin ages now with it going nowhere just being repetative I'm personally fuckin bored with it and see no use for it in this way whatsoever except i suppose for thse new to subject..........
it is the same old real/fake bollox just in a way thats 'trendy' or 'fitting' for its time.........nothing new and a fuckin hinderance when this is what gets people excited, when this type of repetative stuff is what gets the most posts on the forum.
Nowt wrong with it and I'm sure people love this kinda thing and it is interesting and relevant as a subject but to me I'm sick ot fuck of hearing this shite being repeated everywhere by everyone.....seems its all ghost groups want to talk about the great sceptic debate hehehehehehehe!!!!fuckin yawn although the book might be interesting!

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 Post subject: Re: Criticism
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 10:41 am 
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At least people are giving reasons for what they think rather that one word answers. Sure, these things have been mentioned before and it's a debate that will run and run, but as you say, these topics are of interest to some people and as new people join forums it''s good to have them once in a while. If you're bored, just don't read the thread.

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