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 Post subject: Re: Criticism
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 10:48 am 
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its not just these threads it seems to be a thing thats fuckin everywhere in conversations makes me want to hit people when I hear it starting hehehehehehehhe!!!
I probably shouldnt read these threads I was bored last night so I did can u tell hehehehehehehe!!!!

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 Post subject: Re: Criticism
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 10:50 am 
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pollen101 wrote:
its not just these threads it seems to be a thing thats fuckin everywhere in conversations makes me want to hit people when I hear it starting hehehehehehehhe!!!
I probably shouldnt read these threads I was bored last night so I did can u tell hehehehehehehe!!!!

Well you know I only start these things to be hit..... which reminds me :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Criticism
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 10:59 am 
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heheheheheheh no I find the qusetions interesting its when the answers get repetative, new things and a way forward with peoples views is what I'm looking for rather than reading the same stuff etc,where do we go with it how do we apply it so its of use as oppose to just rehashing the same old schpeel of what peoples views are if that makes sense???

ha............I have just remembered ..........

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 Post subject: Re: Criticism
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 11:01 am 
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Thing is tho - these debates - boring and repetative or not - are fundamental to the old shabang. Its the Age of Superstition Vs the Age of Reason .. God vs Professor .. and its gone on since Man first looked up at the stars and thought the Gods were looking down on him .. Many just agreed and accepted in those days with only a very few shouting "HOAX!" and its gone on ever since ..

To understand God - or the paranormal - we're just trying to understand ourselves. Searching for ghosts isn't about finding dead people - its about searching for who we are. And whatever conclusion we come to is a reflection of who we are.

To understand the non-believers / sceptics / believers and why they do what they do and think like they do will give far more answers in regards to ghosts and the paranormal than sitting in a dark room for 8 hours each night. If ghosts do exist - the dark room will give us confirmation / evidence (eventually) that they exist, but won't tell us why or who we are .. all we'll do then is "invent" something else to believe in and it will start again.

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 Post subject: Re: Criticism
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 11:17 am 
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thank fuck for that Jay someone gets me hehehehehehehehehehehehehehe!!!

The point of it hehehehehehehehe!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

exactly 1000000000000% what I mean, thought I was on me own with that one then hehehehehe!!!!!!!!!!!

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 Post subject: Re: Criticism
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 11:21 am 
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Makes total sense to me as well guys.

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 Post subject: Re: Criticism
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 11:35 am 
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excellent Mark!!!!
hehehehehehehe watching the people watching for the ghosts is getting fuckin repetative tho and is no more enlightening than watching paint dry in regards anything other than the same old same old same stuff just 'fitting' terms for it for the times/cultures etc like dogs chasing thier tails innit..............seems the 'pattern' is formed so what now with this 'established pattern'?????????????
Thats including watching the people watching the ghosts and watching for the ghosts themselves seesm to me all its 'proving' is fuck all except an insight into people on the whole.............
what i dont get is why others dont fuckin get this?????????????????

Do we just observe for ever, noting the same old shit???
Is there a way past this shit (course there fuckin is hehehehe there always is)!!!
This incudes all the crypto stuff/alien stuff/old myth/legend stuff etc etc etc all of this shite!!!!!!!!!

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 Post subject: Re: Criticism
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 11:39 am 
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pollen101 wrote:
Is there a way past this shit (course there fuckin is hehehehe there always is)!!!


I expect there is but I'm buggered if I can think of one at the moment. Any ideas?

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 Post subject: Re: Criticism
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 11:47 am 
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I'll see what other people come back with Mark before I post em cos I'm interested in what others think of this

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 Post subject: Re: Criticism
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 11:48 am 
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Ok. In the meantime I'll wrack my brains. (what little I have anyway)

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 Post subject: Re: Criticism
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 12:18 pm 
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just get your 'assuming' position practised for wed hehehehehehe

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 Post subject: Re: Criticism
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 12:50 pm 
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The "I Am Right - You're Not" mentality is what kicks in ..

Out lives and our daily experiences are defined by our beliefs. Its one belief system laid over another belief system, bounded by a belief and a big belief cherry on top.

Despite the words of others - science is no less a belief system than religion .. True, its able to support and provide evidence of what it says - to others - but that evidence is no more valid than the evidence recieved by the man who talks to God ... both are evidence to each others reality - its just their definitions of "evidence" are different.

Others of course will disagree with that. I often talk to people about money and economics and you see the same things repeated over and over - "Money is tight .. wish I had more .. but this is the way of things .. nothing can be done about it .. "

A shit load can be done about it because the economy of the world is not a natural thing .. its man-made. Its the way it is because we, the people, have decided its to be that way .. if we don't like it this way, change it. More accurately, the people in power have decided its to be that way. But once again, we just blindly accept what others have decided without question.

Science is the same - its not a natural thing, its man made. What science might be observing is natural - but the methods employed are just methods we believe are the best methods for describing what we are observing. And the definition of "evidence" within science is just a definition we've created and made up ourselves to suit our the belief system of science.

And this same thing - different definitions - is repeated over and over. The Muslim defines God as this .. the Christian defines God as that .. The Hindu something different altogether .. they are all talking about the same God in truth - its just the definitions are different.

Yet these different definitions create conflict. Your talking about the same thing FFS just using different words, defintions and methods of observing it.

Where the issue comes in and the conflict - whether its correct or not - is when we set out to force our definitions on another group or belief system. The definitions one group is using are only valid for the beleif system your defining and nothing else.

But we continue with the my God is bigger than your God debate and mentality.

Its only when we accept that others are made up of different levels of belief - with only differences being the means of definition - and that we all have some irrational belief system tucked up inside of us somewhere (irrational as defined by others) and stop trying to force our own definitions on others - "I Am Right - You're Not" - only then it will stop and maybe we'll start to get some answers rather that fighting each other and getting nowhere.

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 Post subject: Re: Criticism
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 12:59 pm 
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Totally agree Jay, but far as this thread goes there's only a small amount of the My God is bigger than your God debate mentality (and I won't say from which camp).

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 Post subject: Re: Criticism
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 2:01 pm 
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fuck I'm repeating myself yet again hehehehe pot kettle black again springs to mind dont worry I'll do 100 pressus as punishemnt (If I still can be interesting to see hehehe) but its not WHAT people think its HOW people think which I'm presuming is what your saying Jay...???

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 Post subject: Re: Criticism
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 2:06 pm 
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Of course it is - "what" people think is irrelevent. Whether you think your God is a pink fluffy elephant and to someone else its a gelatanious blob is neither here or there .. Its how you percieve your reality thats important - but only to you the individual - because that "how" is how you define the world .. the "what" is merely the conclusion.

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 Post subject: Re: Criticism
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 2:14 pm 
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so bringing that to this issue thing here then whats the way forward to avoid this 'loop'?

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 Post subject: Re: Criticism
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 2:20 pm 
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Probably an impossible ask. To accept that "your" way of thinking isn't the only way and maybe isn't the "right" way for others and to stop trying to force "your" way and "your" definition onto everybody else.

As Ghandi once said :

The truth is still the truth even if your in a minority of one

If "your" way is "right" - then others will find it eventually. So live and let live. They have to have the right to find it themselves without it being forced on them - yet we don't allow that to happen. The world over sees people trying to force their way onto others - how wrong is bringing democracy to a people down the barrel of a gun? But its what we're doing in the middle-east right now. It doesn't make sense (because its a bullshit "explanation" for our actions).

Let people get on with their own reality and you stick to yours.

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 Post subject: Re: Criticism
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 2:22 pm 
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First Tolstoy, then Ghandi. Have you been reading a lot recently Jay? I'm very impressed.

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 Post subject: Re: Criticism
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 2:29 pm 
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:mrgreen:

Thing is tho, there are a lot of highly insightful quotes about spoken by people who had their fingers on the pulse .. but, which usually get ignored or forgotton about.

We always like to re-invent the wheel and we believe the problems we experience today have never been experienced before .. we're "special" you see and we're the first to experience these things - but we just regurgitate the same shit ..

As Einstein once said ( :wink: ) :

No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created it.

We constantly create these "problems" and use the same methods to fix them that created them in the first place. You end with the same result.

Hence, the need to be always thinking differently and on different levels than the "norm" - otherwise, you just end up in the same place you started.

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 Post subject: Re: Criticism
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 2:36 pm 
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agreed bout the quotes but loads of normal everyday people come out with some awe inspiring ones but cos they not 'someone' and famous for summat these dont get bandied about, interesting in itself!

Fuck all the differnet 'levels' of thinking and different from the 'norm'.....thats part of the same shite hehehehehehehehhehe anyone who thinks like that is regurgitating the same old same old outsied the box inside the box WHAT FUCKIN BOX HEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHHEHEHEHE!!!!

Abso.lutely agree on the previous live and let live philosophy but what does this mean in terms of investigating the paranormal just to keep it back on track and away from the soap box stuff again?

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 Post subject: Re: Criticism
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 3:26 pm 
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You say some doosies which such be etched into people minds to remember forever .. "tit piss wank fuck shit" .. usually sums up the state of the world and should be remembered like those of the great philosphers that have gone before .. :mrgreen:

Where does that leave us in the sense of investigating? There is no right or wrong way to go about it - just definitions. Do it how you want to do it - there isn't a rule book .. there isn't any established "truth" to abide by .. like everything in life - its an open and empty book - so write your own chapter and fuck everyone else.

:mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: Criticism
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 3:31 pm 
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no u not getting me |Jay, I mean what is the fuckin point of it if its all just subjective anyway and people will always believe what they wantto believe.......what is the fuckin point of bothering be better to just ctreate our own stuff and see how far we can take that rather than this shite then unless we are looking at pattenrs cultures peoples behaviours psychological stuff etc.............???

damn right I say some corkers everyone I know does yet its always the famous twats which get quoted hehehe, usually the 'name' is more relevant than the quote I reckon in getting a point across............

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 Post subject: Re: Criticism
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 3:34 pm 
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god ,, heavens above ,crap :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: Criticism
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 4:08 pm 
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You can argue that there isn't any point in investigating because as as been mentioned elsewhere - no evidence will ever be enough for some whereas little evidence will be more than enough for others. So ultimately, we all only do enough to satisfy ourselves (ooer missus :P ).

Ultimately, all we're doing is picking scabs and never getting to the root cause of whats going on. If its a cultural thing or psychological behavioural pattern then its by the by to most people .. A lot aren't interested in that .. they want ghosts, dammit .. and another lot want evidence of - something - whatever it is. But again that comes back to peoples own personal motivation.

There is a need to investigate to learn and discover more. We all want to know more about the world in which we live in and we're not going to achieve that by sitting on our ass doing nothing or even making things up. Now whether thats a Scientific Investigation - a psychic or spiritual investigation - or somemadeupword investigation .. isn't important at this stage because we can't even agree on what is being investigated so we end up just chasing shadows (sometimes literally! :D )

To me (where I'm leaning) - its a manifestation of our own mind and consciousness and as I said above - investigating, exploring and learning about "ghosts" is an investigation & exploration of myself. How I approach it .. how I experience it .. how I react to those experiences .. and do I manifest them myself? are all things that are being discovered as I go. My own personal experiences define who and what I am.

But as usual with everything - religion and science included - we consistantly look outside of ourselves for the answers. Perceptively, to me, whats out there is a mirrowed image of whats in here. There may be places out there that encourage whats in here to manifest, hence why I go to them - but could I sit in a dark room at home and do it anyway? Me thinks I can ..

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 Post subject: Re: Criticism
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 4:11 pm 
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like claires pic on here stick it down your gob as good as :wink:


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