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 Post subject: Mediums in Investigations
PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 4:16 pm 
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Scaredy Cat

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I apologise in advance if this topic has already been discussed or if the content offends in any way, that is not the reason for this topic.

The reason I would like people's opinions is due to a conversation I had once. The other person's opinion was that the insight that a medium gave could not be counted as there is no proof that the medium researched the building where the investigation takes place beforehand, which can be classed as a fair point but my point is that if you trust that person not to research then any information given must be accepted as part of a legitimate investigation as much as using a K2 meter or a ghost voice box or any other scientific equipment. I have also been on investigations where a medium has used their gift to enhance the investigation.

I understand that people can be sceptical on the subject of mediums and whether their gift is genuine but I have had experience of mediumship in both an investigative and personal nature and I will admit that I believe that the people that I have come across are genuine.


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 Post subject: Re: Mediums in Investigations
PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 4:27 pm 
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To be blunt if anyone expects to go ghost hunting, they are in it for the wrong reasons and will be duped by the less honest out there.

So we use equipment to monitor what the equipment is designed to monitor. Equipment can be calibrated. EMF detects EMF, it cant or wont show where a ghost is. The reason being we dont know what a ghost could or couldnt do, that would be detectable, if we could prove ghosts exists.

Mediums, cannot prove what they do, they cant prove they talk to the dead, they cant prove there's an afterlife. An EMF meter can prove there's an EMF field.

So mediums on an investigation are not a necessity.....the info they come up with, in the case of the NGI mediums, is often very interesting, but we really only have their word on it that they don't hold some encyclopedic knowledge of all old buildings etc.
To that point I professionally couldn't state anything they said was evidence as such, anecdotal perhaps. This doesn't mean I don't believe them.....its just there's no control....therefore no scientific evidence.

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 Post subject: Re: Mediums in Investigations
PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 4:28 pm 
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Well here are my views on mediums on investigations.

I would kind of agree with the person that you had your conversation with in that any information a medium gave could not be counted as proof. Until there is some definitive proof that mediumship actually works, any information they give is going to be way too subjective and therefore not proof.

That is not to say that I don't think that there aren't any genuine mediums and that they are not useful on investigations, it's just how useful they are at providing anything that could be classed as proof.

I would also say that aforementioned K2 meter and ghost box provide no proof for the same reasons and are even less useful than a medium.

As far a private residence investigations go I am against mediums being present (unless there are exceptional circumstances). The simple reason being that when dealing writhe matters of this nature you really have to stick to facts as best you can.

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 Post subject: Re: Mediums in Investigations
PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 3:25 pm 
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I as a medium will never look into any history what so ever to any investigations that we may do in future. If a history talk is at the beginning of any investigation I will go out the room as I want to know what I pick up on, not what someone else has already told me in a history talk. Even if we mediums do get good proof of names, conditions, etc, etc, there are always sceptics that say that we must of 'red up on that.'

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Mediums, cannot prove what they do, they cant prove they talk to the dead, they cant prove there's an afterlife. An EMF meter can prove there's an EMF field.


and sceptics cannot prove that spirit do not exsist.

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 Post subject: Re: Mediums in Investigations
PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 3:59 pm 
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AprilButterfly wrote:
and sceptics cannot prove that spirit do not exsist.


But the burden of proof is on the mediums who make the claim.

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 Post subject: Re: Mediums in Investigations
PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 4:26 pm 
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why have mediums in the group then ?

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 Post subject: Re: Mediums in Investigations
PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 4:46 pm 
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You tell me? What do you think they add?

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 Post subject: Re: Mediums in Investigations
PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 6:07 pm 
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A medium is in the group because we're looking for explanations for hauntings - whether those explanations are of a "normal" or "paranormal" nature. If a medium can provide information that supports information gleaned from scientific means (either before or after the event) - then its a tick in the box of mediums and a tick in the box of the paranormal in general.

However, a sceptic or non-believer can't prove that spirits don't exist .. not because they are stumped .. but because (if this is the case) you can't prove that something doesn't exist because if it doesn't exist then it doesn't leave behind any evidence that proves it doesn't exist, because, it doesn't exist. Pure logic.

It's like saying a Big Dragon lives at the center of the sun and breathes out fire (a super big dragon!!). As there is no way we can travel into the sun to take a peek, there's no way that the theory can be proved or dis-proved directly. However, what we can do is observe the sun, look at the radiation, look at the chemical makeup through it's spectograph, understand gravity, understand thermal dynamics etc etc and offer an alternative theory based on what we observe.

Now we'll never be able to say, directly, that a Big Dragon does or doesn't exist at the center of the sun - but we can work out, by how things work in general, what the sun is and what does exist at the center. And no dragons.

Spirits and ghosts, for instance, go against all the laws of physics - particularly, the laws of energy conservation and thermal dynamics, that rules out any possible way they could exist. However, as people do report what we'd consider paranormal activity, then we investigate and, given the nature of the subject, bring a medium along .. "just in case" .. and make sure we cover all angles and theories (weird and wonderful or hard coded "facts").

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 Post subject: Re: Mediums in Investigations
PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 6:54 pm 
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I think in our group having mediums on investigations adds another dimension to what we do. It might not provide any scientific evidence, but it can make the night a bit more interesting if there is not much in the way of physical phenomena or recordable activity.

Quite often information comes from mediums that either ties in with what people at the location have reported, or names are given that can be verified afterwards (hopefully).

I feel it's important that a medium is present (though not essential) to give balance to what we do. Not everyone believes in what mediums claim to do, but then not everyone believes in God, or life after death, do they?

I understand and respect groups who take the full on sceptical approach with science as their guide. I have less understanding of groups who take a full on medium approach, as you may as well not bother in my view. There has to be a balance between science and the mediumistic possibilities - in my view that is. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Mediums in Investigations
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 3:47 pm 
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Thanks for your views. I can agree to an extent with Jay and Mark as well as Alice. Surely if you can guarantee that a medium involved in an investigation has no knowledge of a building either by research or by local knowledge then if they provide information and it is researched and proved correct, surely then that information must be taken as genuine even if it's on face value.

It was mentioned that paranormal goes against the laws of physics. I was taught at school that energy could never just "disappear", it changes into another form of energy. If that's the case, what happens to people's energy when they die? Maybe this is what a medium picks up? As I mentioned previously, I have experience of mediums and I have been told information that I didn't know and after making enquiries it was proved to be correct. So if there is no "proof" in mediumship, how is giving information such as this possible?


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 Post subject: Re: Mediums in Investigations
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 4:24 pm 
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The Ferryman
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If you could guarantee that a medium involved in an investigation has no knowledge of a building either by research or by local knowledge (I'm not sure how you could guarantee this though) and they provide information that is proved correct, then it could be pretty compelling. However this would depend on what information the medium gave. A first name and and a cause of death isn't going to be enough I'm afraid.

All to often information from mediums is far too vague. It may indeed be correct and genuine information, but until they can provide definite consistent data then any information given is a long way off being classed as proof.

As for your own case it's pretty hard to comment on it without knowing the exact information the medium told you, but most information given by mediums can be 'retrofitted' into peoples lives if you try hard enough.

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 Post subject: Re: Mediums in Investigations
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 5:28 pm 
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Alan_D wrote:
It was mentioned that paranormal goes against the laws of physics. I was taught at school that energy could never just "disappear", it changes into another form of energy. If that's the case, what happens to people's energy when they die? Maybe this is what a medium picks up?


Well, that's a bit of simplification really .. Technically, there's no such thing as "energy" - it's just our lazy use of the word in day to day speech that makes us think there is. What exists in Physics is something called Potential Energy, which basically describes how .. ermm .. energetically .. something changes from one form into another.

But Potential Energy is just a property of an atom based on it's mass .. you can't walk into a shop and ask for a Bottle of (potential) Energy - just like you can't walk into a shop and ask for a Bottle of Length - and that's all Energy is .. like Length, Width, Mass .. it's not a tangible thing you can hold in your hand.

If you burn a bit of wood .. it turns into charcoal and in doing so radiates heat and light (and carbon in the form of smoke). How vigorously it does this is it's Potential Energy. Physics can describe how vigorous it does do it.

When a body dies, it decomposes into maggot food and nutrients (or a Sunday Joint for cannibals!!) . It "turns" into something else and it's "energy" (for want of a better word after thinking for 2 minutes!!) is consumed by bacteria, maggots and cannibals.

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 Post subject: Re: Mediums in Investigations
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 10:58 am 
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In physics when it talks about energy its usually, Potential, kinetic, chemical, thermal and electrical. (theres also Electrochemical, electromagnetic, nuclear and sound energies)

We have small electrical impulses in our bodies, its what makes our muscles work (kinetic energy iirc). When we die, that energy is transformed to chemical energy, as we decompose. There's really no magical effect we become fertiliser unless we are cremated, and then we are still chemical energy as we burn, we are in fact a fuel.

Energy is always conserved, that is, it is never created new or destroyed - this is called the First Law of Thermodynamics. Thus, when an object does work on another object, the energy can only be converted and/or transferred, but never lost or generated anew. In a sense, energy is like perfect money - transferred but always preserved, assuming no inflation or deflation!

It starts to get very complex, but the basic statement, the laws of physics don't change over time, means we can use them as a constant no matter what environment we apply them.
This is why we understand so much more now than we did 100 years or more ago.

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 Post subject: Re: Mediums in Investigations
PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 6:15 pm 
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Quote:
Quite often information comes from mediums that either ties in with what people at the location have reported, or names are given that can be verified afterwards (hopefully).



Thats what I like doing, try my best to get information that has been reported before from somewhere else (by my spirit guides and not cheating by listening to history talks or internet research.) I leave room on history talks ;)

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as well as Alice


Who is Alice ;)

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I have experience of mediums and I have been told information that I didn't know and after making enquiries it was proved to be correct. So if there is no "proof" in mediumship, how is giving information such as this possible?


Exactly, we get messages from spirit, many mediums out there say that your body may die, but the soul lives on. I can say that if I have nothing to say, no information, names, conditions come to me I will not make anything up . If we where on an investigation and I get nothing, I get nothing. I go to venues with an open mind and just hope spirit come close and give me information that I need....... but there again, on the cos mos event, I did pick up on a few things, it was later that dok had mentioned that a lot of that information was on a board somewhere in the pub and I must of red it before the event started. Hand on my heart I did not do any research online or seen the board, I did not even know that board exsisted till dok pointed it out... once I found the board and pointed it out ''ahh look, thats where the board is''' dok still thinks I must of glanced at it before the event... (shakes head) not me

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 Post subject: Re: Mediums in Investigations
PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 8:54 am 
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AprilButterfly wrote:
it was later that dok had mentioned that a lot of that information was on a board somewhere in the pub and I must of red it before the event started.


To be fair I didn't put it as bluntly as that. All I did was point out that anything yo picked up on can't really be looked on as proof if all the information is on display next to the bar whether you knowingly looked at it or not.

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 Post subject: Re: Mediums in Investigations
PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 2:14 pm 
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even if I did see any info, I usually have my head down so I do not read up on anything just the floor tiles lol

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 Post subject: Re: Mediums in Investigations
PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 11:00 am 
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not needed but personally I think its an advantage to 1 or 10!!


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