It is currently Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:28 am



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 22 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Not so psychic Sally?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 3:28 pm 
Offline
The Ferryman
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2007 12:31 pm
Posts: 10887
Location: Stockton-on-Tees
This recent news story is certainly going to cause some controversy.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2011/ ... ars-voices

_________________
Northern Ghost Investigations -
Messing around with things we don't understand since 2005


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Not so psychic Sally?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 3:38 pm 
Offline
The Ferryman
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 09, 2006 10:28 pm
Posts: 10488
I bet she never saw that one coming ... ;)

_________________
Northern Ghost Investigations
Latest blatant plug for some stuff that I'm in the middle of!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Not so psychic Sally?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 3:46 pm 
Offline
The Ferryman
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2007 12:31 pm
Posts: 10887
Location: Stockton-on-Tees
The uber skeptics are going to have a field day with this one, but to me the story as told doesn't quite add up.

Don't think for one minute that I'm saying Ms Morgan is the real deal (far from it), it is just that the two people who were allegedly feeding her the info were employed by the theatre and not her own team.

Are we then to believe that there is some sort of mass conspiracy between theatres and other venues who are willing to do her dirty work for her? It would be way too risky for her to do that. The more people you let in on a con, the greater the chance you'll be found out.

_________________
Northern Ghost Investigations -
Messing around with things we don't understand since 2005


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Not so psychic Sally?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 9:26 pm 
Offline
Elite Investigator
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2011 2:41 pm
Posts: 782
Maybe this is a good example of selective evidence from some sceptical quarters. It seems that they have based a lot on the hearsay of an alleged audience member...by all means debunk the very well paid stage mediums, but some credible evidence would be useful to make their case a whole lot better.

And I'm not defending her either, but having read this, the evidence against her all seems a bit flimsy to me.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Not so psychic Sally?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 9:08 am 
Offline
The Ferryman
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2007 12:31 pm
Posts: 10887
Location: Stockton-on-Tees
Exactly. When it comes to stuff like people hearing alleged voices in haunted areas or picking up EVPs, they are often very quick to point out the failings of human hearing and how easy it is to mistake things, then all of a sudden when the shoe is on the other foot the same kind of 'evidence' becomes very compelling.

_________________
Northern Ghost Investigations -
Messing around with things we don't understand since 2005


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Not so psychic Sally?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 11:45 am 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2007 2:40 pm
Posts: 2556
Location: Billingham
aww come on guys. Did you really think she was genuine? Are you honestly surprised by this?

_________________
I aint afraid of no ghost

Image


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Not so psychic Sally?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 11:54 am 
Offline
The Ferryman
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2007 12:31 pm
Posts: 10887
Location: Stockton-on-Tees
Personally I don't think she's genuine, I've no evidence either way, but that's my gut feeling.

What I'm not surprised about is the way so called 'critical thinkers' are jumping on some flimsy evidence to help support their cause, especially when they criticise paranormal investigators for doing exactly the same thing.

_________________
Northern Ghost Investigations -
Messing around with things we don't understand since 2005


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Not so psychic Sally?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 11:58 am 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2007 2:40 pm
Posts: 2556
Location: Billingham
I see a huge difference between people like this charlatan and the people we work with. The people we work with dont do it for personal gain.
To me that lends a touch of credibility.

_________________
I aint afraid of no ghost

Image


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Not so psychic Sally?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 12:06 pm 
Offline
The Ferryman
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2007 12:31 pm
Posts: 10887
Location: Stockton-on-Tees
I agree Anth, but even if people do think Sally is a charlatan, it still only their opinion. The cynics should really get some solid evidence to back this up, rather than being content with this hearsay.

You're right in that the people we work with are different. Whether they have genuine ability or not is still a question in my mind, but the main thing for me is that they have integrity, question themselves, never preach and are genuinely nice people who want to help. To be fair on them they sometimes come out with some intriguing stuff too. :wink:

_________________
Northern Ghost Investigations -
Messing around with things we don't understand since 2005


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Not so psychic Sally?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 3:17 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2007 2:40 pm
Posts: 2556
Location: Billingham
without the co-operation of "psychic" sally we could never proove a thing.

She's not going to subject herself to anything that could potentially stop her lucrative career.

So we could try smuggling in a multiband radio and see if we can pick something up.
But it could be digital and encrypted, so then how do you know?

This hearsay is from more than one witness and the theatre admitted there were people in there talking. I put it to the people that Sally, until she has proven her ability, should be prevented from claiming to be psychic.

_________________
I aint afraid of no ghost

Image


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Not so psychic Sally?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 3:46 pm 
Offline
The Ferryman
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2007 12:31 pm
Posts: 10887
Location: Stockton-on-Tees
Where do you stop with that though? Does everyone then have to prove everything before they are legally allowed to say things, such as vicars repeating the words of God etc.

I think it is possible to prove she is a fraud without her co-operation, just as James Randi famously did with the Faith Healer Peter Poppoff. Here's a like to the video if anyone want to check it out. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7BQKu0YP8Y

_________________
Northern Ghost Investigations -
Messing around with things we don't understand since 2005


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Not so psychic Sally?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 6:33 pm 
Offline
Elite Investigator
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2011 2:41 pm
Posts: 782
I'm not so sure people should have to prove they are psychic, but I do strongly believe they should not be allowed to appear on stage for financial reward. By all means pay their expenses for travel and lodging, and maybe a bit on top, but making money out of peoples grief in such a theatrical way, in the way of entertainment, has always seemed very wrong to me.

I don't have any issue with mediums charging privately (a reasonable fee) if people want to be counselled in some way, but all these medium tours leave a bad taste.

I read somewhere else that Sally asks for people attending to leave notes in a bowl or something in the foyer asking for relatives to come forward. This seems a more likely way for her to get some good accurate hits when on stage, with all the names etc provided on a plate almost..! :shock:


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Not so psychic Sally?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 2:18 pm 
Offline
The Ferryman
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 09, 2006 10:28 pm
Posts: 10488
Who's at fault here tho?

Snake Oil Salesman have no doubt existed for a few hundred years and while a "sucker is born every minute" they are always going to exist.

The Government introduced an act a couple of years back stating that all stuff like this should be classed as entertainment (whether Sally says this or not is another matter) and therefore should be seen as such. Wheres the difference between people paying money to go see Sally or another Stage Medium and paying money to go and see David Blaine, for instance? Or a play in the Theatre.

All these things come under Entertainment .. and if a sucker IS born every minute .. then ......... well .... is it the Sucker or the Snake Oil Salesman to blame?

_________________
Northern Ghost Investigations
Latest blatant plug for some stuff that I'm in the middle of!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Not so psychic Sally?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 7:54 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2007 2:40 pm
Posts: 2556
Location: Billingham
Jay wrote:
Who's at fault here tho?

Snake Oil Salesman have no doubt existed for a few hundred years and while a "sucker is born every minute" they are always going to exist.

The Government introduced an act a couple of years back stating that all stuff like this should be classed as entertainment (whether Sally says this or not is another matter) and therefore should be seen as such. Wheres the difference between people paying money to go see Sally or another Stage Medium and paying money to go and see David Blaine, for instance? Or a play in the Theatre.

All these things come under Entertainment .. and if a sucker IS born every minute .. then ......... well .... is it the Sucker or the Snake Oil Salesman to blame?



Well who's to blame the drug dealer or the addict?
The licensee or the alcoholic?

Although I agree that if people are going to pay they should understand its for entertainment, but some dont. Some are so desperate that creatures like this feed on them...literally.

_________________
I aint afraid of no ghost

Image


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Not so psychic Sally?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 10:49 am 
Offline
Elite Investigator
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2011 2:41 pm
Posts: 782
Jay wrote:
The Government introduced an act a couple of years back stating that all stuff like this should be classed as entertainment (whether Sally says this or not is another matter) and therefore should be seen as such. Wheres the difference between people paying money to go see Sally or another Stage Medium and paying money to go and see David Blaine, for instance? Or a play in the Theatre.


It's a difficult one. if they hadn't classed it as entertainment, then it probably wouldn't have been as popular, and would have taken place more privately i suppose, and we wouldn't be debating it.

But I do think just because the government classed it as entertainment, doesn't mean it shouldn't be held morally accountable for its actions. It might be entertaining for some, but it does seem all a bit morally mixed up.

I think the snake oil salesman is always to blame, because he is a conman dressed up as a miracle or something unbelievable. And, because even though he might believe his own hype, he is basically not all he appears to be, and after the fuss has died down, he leaves disappointment in his wake... :lol:


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Not so psychic Sally?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 11:03 am 
Offline
The Ferryman
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 09, 2006 10:28 pm
Posts: 10488
Anth wrote:
Well who's to blame the drug dealer or the addict?
The licensee or the alcoholic?

Although I agree that if people are going to pay they should understand its for entertainment, but some dont. Some are so desperate that creatures like this feed on them...literally.


But if there is a market or niche, someone will fill it. Agree with it or not, but thats good old Capitalism at work. For any market to exist, both sides - buyer and seller - need to be willing and are to "blame". Even the "unsavoury" ones. If people were educated enough to realise the devastating effects drugs can have on them then a dealer wouldn't have a market.

Likewise with stage mediums. Some people are desperate for life after death to exist and we can probably all understand that need whether or not we believe it does or not. And someone somewhere will always step in to fill the hole. Can't really blame the likes of Sally - she's no different to anyone selling anything.

TV Advertising spends billions on psychological tricks to persuade us their particular brand of Chocolate Pudding, usually playing with sexual tricks, is the best thing ever and we should go and buy it NOW! In someways, thats worse, because they are brainwashing us INTO believing we need something rather than just catering to a belief that already exists.

If all mediums - whether they are genuine or fake - were banned tomorrow, people would still have that need filling. They'd still wish to contact their dead relatives and that could potentially cause more problems for the grieving individual as they wouldn't get any relief. The could end up turning to the Church!! :shock:

As unsavoury as it is, it does help some people to get closure. Psychologically speaking - people don't need THE truth, they just need A truth, to allow them to move on. If a Snake Oil Salesman can give them that, then so be it.

_________________
Northern Ghost Investigations
Latest blatant plug for some stuff that I'm in the middle of!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Not so psychic Sally?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 11:56 am 
Offline
A Stiff
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2009 6:38 pm
Posts: 1323
Location: Trimdon, East Coast Durham
Tbh I have very little time for her..or any other supposed psychic who is in it for the cash. How many TV mediums have been exposed previously?

_________________
Do I look like the dead scare me?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Not so psychic Sally?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 8:56 am 
Offline
The Ferryman
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2007 12:31 pm
Posts: 10887
Location: Stockton-on-Tees
Well there was Poppoff who was exposed live on American TV and he's back in busniess again I gather. There was the whole Colin Fry ' Trumpet Incident' and of course the 'Kreed Kafer-gate' with good old Derek. It seems that 'exposing' a medium does little to dint their popularity.

_________________
Northern Ghost Investigations -
Messing around with things we don't understand since 2005


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Not so psychic Sally?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 9:21 am 
Offline
The Ferryman
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2007 12:31 pm
Posts: 10887
Location: Stockton-on-Tees
...so how about Paranormal Teams who 'employ' mediums that charge people money for public investigations, could this be classed as the same thing, albeit on a smaller scale?

_________________
Northern Ghost Investigations -
Messing around with things we don't understand since 2005


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Not so psychic Sally?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 10:23 am 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2007 2:40 pm
Posts: 2556
Location: Billingham
Well it all depends doesnt it. A self confessed medium has a lot of responsibility and could easily be in the game for fakery.
I suspect that theres way more fake mediums employed on money making teams.
which is why I have no time for these types of team.

I sometimes wish we didnt have to "perform" for the butterwick, but its a way to keep the team running.

_________________
I aint afraid of no ghost

Image


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Not so psychic Sally?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 10:33 am 
Offline
The Ferryman
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2007 12:31 pm
Posts: 10887
Location: Stockton-on-Tees
It's also for a good cause. I don't like 'performing' either (and by that I don't mean make stuff up), it's just that I didn't get into this area to be a tour guide or an entertainer, I got in it for the paranormal research.

That is why I can't for the life of me see why groups who are full of people who claim to feel the same way but seem to be content in doing so many public events one after another and passing them off as 'investigations'

_________________
Northern Ghost Investigations -
Messing around with things we don't understand since 2005


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Not so psychic Sally?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 2:38 pm 
Offline
The Ferryman
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 09, 2006 10:28 pm
Posts: 10488
Money talks ..

It wouldn't surprise if Sally (and the other TV Mediums) started off genuinely believing they got messages from the dead - and then having done a few readings for friends and family - someone said " Hey - we're having a girly get together next week - fancy giving us all readings? Go on! We'll give you a fiver each ..."

And then starts the journey to the Stage and Most Haunted .. "Sally" made £50 that night .. She could make £50 next week too .. and the next .. And if she moves to doing 2 of these nights a week, theres a £100 .. Not to be sniffed at for doing something you were doing for friends and family anyway ..

Likewise for groups .. The first few might genuinely be to cover the costs of the expensive locations .. but not only did they cover the cost, they had £100 left over ... Cha-Ching!

_________________
Northern Ghost Investigations
Latest blatant plug for some stuff that I'm in the middle of!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 22 posts ] 

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Theme designed by stylerbb.net © 2008
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
All times are UTC [ DST ]