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 Post subject: Paranormal - Just an illusion?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 5:11 pm 
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The Ferryman
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Only for those who are not hard of hearing with it being a radio broadcast .. Sorry Dok!! .. can't you sneak headphones into work?? :D

http://news.bbc.co.uk/today/hi/today/ne ... 410492.stm

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 Post subject: Re: Paranormal - Just an illusion?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 5:14 pm 
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If I had some I could. Make have to make a purchase.

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 Post subject: Re: Paranormal - Just an illusion?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 4:35 pm 
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I know I haven't seen many ghosts through my own eyes, but know of the first ghost I seen was Anne Bronte at Scarborough Grand Hotel when I was around 10 (so I wasn't intoxicated at that age lol).

then when one of my guinea pigs had a stroke one night I seen her friend (who died 2 years earlier) run towards Gizmo's room, when I took Gizmo out her cage it was obvious Giz wouldn't make it through the night. Giz died the next moring so I say I did see her friend Patch getting Gizmo ready for her journey.

RIP Giz and Patch

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 Post subject: Re: Paranormal - Just an illusion?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 6:36 pm 
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The trouble with people like Wiseman, is that they always seem to approach it from such a one sided angle. In his case, science or psychology. Now I'm not saying that it doesn't account for much of what we experience, (or at least enhances it) but I don't believe it does account for everything. He would say it does.

Maybe I/we are deluded and he and people like that are the sensible sane ones?

I'm just not so sure you can neatly package everything with a dry sceptical explanation like Wiseman does. It almost borders on arrogance or patronising to say to people that what they experience is nothing more than in their own imagination or just a coincidence.

Again, I'm not saying it isn't in many cases, just as we all do to be healthily sceptical, but to be so extreme could be argued to be an unmoving extreme stance just like some believers have. I've had this argument before about Dawkins, who has such a core following that some of his fans are almost like his disciples, which I always found a bit ironic. :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: Paranormal - Just an illusion?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:02 am 
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mark wrote:
I'm just not so sure you can neatly package everything with a dry sceptical explanation like Wiseman does. It almost borders on arrogance or patronising to say to people that what they experience is nothing more than in their own imagination or just a coincidence.


My feelings exactly.

That's for reviving this thread. I've got some headphones at work now so will give it a listen if the link still works.

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 Post subject: Re: Paranormal - Just an illusion?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 12:16 pm 
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Wiseman annoys me. His 'Paranormality' isn't a patch on 'Randi's Prize'. It (conveniently) ignores all the academic research that has been done into the paranormal and concentrates more in shooting down all the usual easy targets.

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 Post subject: Re: Paranormal - Just an illusion?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 12:23 pm 
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doktor_phibes wrote:
Wiseman annoys me. His 'Paranormality' isn't a patch on 'Randi's Prize'. It (conveniently) ignores all the academic research that has been done into the paranormal and concentrates more in shooting down all the usual easy targets.


I agree, and do think that their stance is quite lazy as well as easy. Simply debunk all things paranormal, in a somewhat smug manner. :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: Paranormal - Just an illusion?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 12:30 pm 
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A lot of these 'celebrity' sceptics seem to do the same. They'll constantly quote academic research when it suits their view of the universe, but as soon as an academic published something that shows some positive evidence for the paranormal they seem to pounce and start saying that the 'experiments had major flaws etc'.

No wonder so many scientists don't want to touch the field with a bargepole. After saying having read 'Randi's Prize' the tide may be turning a little. The public face of scepticism seems to be controlled by the same few bods who are wheeled out whenever needed, say the same thing and get paid money for old rope. It is good to know that some academics are taking things more seriously behind the scenes.

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 Post subject: Re: Paranormal - Just an illusion?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 2:35 pm 
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doktor_phibes wrote:
The public face of scepticism seems to be controlled by the same few bods who are wheeled out whenever needed, say the same thing and get paid money for old rope.


Almost like some kind of anti-paranormal 'devils advocate', if that makes sense.

doktor_phibes wrote:
It is good to know that some academics are taking things more seriously behind the scenes.


It is, even if that is a bit like swimming against the tide of popular scientific opinion (or fact as they would have it...lol).


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 Post subject: Re: Paranormal - Just an illusion?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 2:45 pm 
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My mum recored me a bit of the TV programme 'This Morning' the other week when they were discussing The Enfield Poltergeist. Both Janet (the girl that it was most centred around) and Guy (one of the main investigators) were on the show talking about it. They also had the token sceptic (from sceptic magazine) there as 'balance'.

Now I know the 'sceptic' is always going to be seen as the bad guy or the part pooper in these light entertainment pieces, but she came across as rude and condescending to both Janet and Guy. She dismissed the whole thing as a hoax by making a totally random connection to the Amityville case, and made some incorrect comments about other people involved in the case such as Graham Morris.

If you're going to be call to come on TV and give your opinions you should really check your facts love.

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 Post subject: Re: Paranormal - Just an illusion?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 5:39 pm 
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'Paranormality' by Richard Wiseman is for sale in 'The Works' not for £2.99 if anyone is interested. It's actually worth it for that price.

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 Post subject: Re: Paranormal - Just an illusion?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 8:16 pm 
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doktor_phibes wrote:

Now I know the 'sceptic' is always going to be seen as the bad guy or the part pooper in these light entertainment pieces, but she came across as rude and condescending to both Janet and Guy.


There really is no need for that type of attitude. Apart from demeaning the people involved it makes the whole paranormal scene look a bit ridiculous and confused.

I'm going to have a hunt round for that..


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 Post subject: Re: Paranormal - Just an illusion?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 11:35 pm 
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Well, having seen the video on the ITV website I can't believe that a person can be so dismissive of peoples experiences.

Now I haven't read all the material around the case, but I do think that she could have been a little less direct in her approach. I think had she talked generally around the subject rather than virtually accusing them of being unreliable fantasists it would have been a lot more respectful and credible.

She was probably playing to her own niche audience, but still, there are people involved here who have had their own experiences that do not deserve to be dismissed by anyone in this way.


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 Post subject: Re: Paranormal - Just an illusion?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 9:55 am 
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You should read the material around the case, it's fascinating.

'This House is Haunted' by Guy Lyon Playfair

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 Post subject: Re: Paranormal - Just an illusion?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 10:49 am 
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Its an interesting book I give it that. But he does dismiss mostly the possibility of pranks. Some fo the things he takes as definately paranormal, I felt could have been play acting. It would be interesting to review the evidence in a modern light, including a vocal coach to listen to what the voice sounded like.

What really irked me is the attitude of Janet throughout the investigation, she wasnt particularly bothered about much of it, which makes me a tad suspicious. Also when it was revealed there were ten spirits in the house from the graveyard, was any effort made to establish the names or possible locations of graves?

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 Post subject: Re: Paranormal - Just an illusion?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 10:54 am 
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Well I think the 'voice' contradicted a lot.
Have you listened to the voice yourself yet Anth and if so what do you think?

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 Post subject: Re: Paranormal - Just an illusion?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 12:21 pm 
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Just found a good podcast. This episode is all about the Enfield Poltergeist. Enjoy!

http://theunexplained.tv/paranormal-pod ... oltergeist

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 Post subject: Re: Paranormal - Just an illusion?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 12:44 pm 
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I have heard it in the past. And whilst I personally find it difficult to talk liek that, there are people who can sing like that for hours on alive setting. There is a way to do and youc an coach yourself in it. How likely that is for a 12 year old in the 1970's I wouldnt want to speculate.

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 Post subject: Re: Paranormal - Just an illusion?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 4:11 pm 
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doktor_phibes wrote:
You should read the material around the case, it's fascinating.

'This House is Haunted' by Guy Lyon Playfair



Thanks, just downloaded it for the kindle. Bloody pricey though at £6.16, but they know its just too difficult to resist that instant book download...gits. :wink: :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Paranormal - Just an illusion?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 4:12 pm 
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you won't regret it.

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