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 Post subject: 'I died in Jerusalem in 1276'
PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 5:30 pm 
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'I died in Jerusalem in 1276', says doctor who underwent hypnosis to reveal a former life

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The last time I 'died' was in Jerusalem in 1276. Pope Gregory X's Crusade against Islam had collapsed and the city's Christians would soon be abandoned to their fate.

My final hours were filled with fear. I was besieged in a beautiful vaulted church along with 100 knights. Smoky candlelight glinted off their armour. Some knights were praying, others resting.

As dawn broke, they readied themselves for the final conflict with an implacable foe. Even the most devout were terrified. All knew that only a handful would survive the coming day.

I watched their preparations for battle. The sharpening of swords and lances. The reinforcing of shields and armour.

But most of all, I prepared for my own death. As a monk in a city of Muslims, my chances of surviving the coming assault were slim. Soon after the knights left the church, I retreated to a small side-chapel to pray. I was desperate for forgiveness.

I had travelled from a monastery in Kent to the Holy Land so that I could kill Muslims.

Although I still hated Islam, I found it hard to love my own side. The decadence and corruption of the Crusaders had sickened me. I wanted to be left alone to live in peace, but it was too late.

With no knights left to protect me, the rampaging enemy had set fire to the chapel. I watched as the flames roared up the sides of the building.

Soon I too was on fire and burning like a Roman candle. I didn't feel any pain - I knew I was going to die and that my Lord would make it swift.

Out of the blackness I could see a burning white light. A calm voice asked me what I had learned from my life and whether there was any knowledge I wished to carry to the next.

It was the voice of David Wells - a past-life regression therapist who had put me in a trance and guided me to my 'past incarnation'.

To many, the idea of reincarnation will seem like bunkum. But strange as it may seem, it is garnering a surprising degree of respectable scientific support.

Today, London hosts an international conference on the subject in memory of the late Dr Ian Stevenson, an American scientist who spent decades studying the phenomenon.

Dr Stevenson amassed an astonishing amount of evidence for reincarnation. He tracked down more than 3,000 children who claimed to have experienced a 'previous life'.

Many were able to give precise details, such as their former names and the manner of their deaths. They could even recall the names of friends and family, many of whom Dr Stevenson was able to track down through birth records. Others knew intimate details known only to the deceased's family.

Such findings have led respected academics to startling conclusions. 'Reincarnation is the most likely explanation for the strongest cases,' says Dr Jim Tucker, medical director of the Child and Family Psychiatric Clinic at the University of Virginia in the U.S.

'The evidence points to a "carry over" of memories and emotions from one life to another. That could be termed reincarnation.'

Reincarnation is highly controversial - not just among scientists, but between different religions too. Broadly speaking, Christians, Muslims and Jews do not believe in it, while Hindus and Buddhists do.

To most in the West, it is still seen as little more than the product of a far-fetched imagination. But given the growing interest of the scientific community, I decided to investigate whether there could be more to it.

I volunteered to undergo what's known as 'past-life regression therapy'. Practitioners of this discipline claim we have all lived before and that we can be taught to remember our former incarnations.

It sounded utterly preposterous. Yet I must admit to a certain uneasiness, also. What if I were to remember that I had been a murderer or a rapist in a former life? Or, Heaven forbid, one of Hitler or Stalin's henchmen?

Whatever the truth behind it, past-life regression is not without risks. The psychological shock of 'recovering a memory' from a former life can overwhelm some. Others feel guilty about misdeeds 'they' perpetrated.

I took comfort from the fact that David Wells, one of Britain's most experienced practitioners and author of Past, Present And Future: What Your Past Lives Tell You About Yourself, had agreed to be my guide.

I was led into a darkened room and coaxed into relaxing on a big, soft chair surrounded by burning incense and scented candles.

David asked me to imagine myself floating above my house. I mentally drifted off into space and turned back to face our beautiful planet.

Slowly the Earth appeared to stop turning and began to reverse direction. This symbolised flying backwards through time.

In my hypnotic state, I pictured myself returning to Earth at the time of my former life - just in time to re-live my death in that church in 13th-century Jerusalem.

My regression experience was perplexing, to say the least. I felt as if I were living in two worlds at once. I was aware of my current life, but the world of Jerusalem in 1276 was equally real.

I could feel the clothes I was wearing and the sandals on my feet. I saw my surroundings in vivid detail, right down to the moonlight streaming through church windows and the fear etched on the knights' faces.

It felt more powerful and spontaneous than a memory, more realistic than a dream, but not as solid as the waking world.

As I stayed in my trance, David started asking me questions about my past life, and things became even stranger. It felt as if someone else was replying.

The answers I gave were so spontaneous and specific that it certainly didn't feel like I was dreaming them up on the spot, or trawling through memories of films set during the Crusades.

Was I merely describing scenes from my imagination or from facts I had gleaned during my real life?

Professor Chris French, a psychologist at Goldsmiths, University of London, thinks it was a combination of the two. He is deeply sceptical about past-life encounters, and says: 'Often people who undergo hypnotic regression conjure up false memories. It's not a magical key for unlocking hidden memories.

'There's mountains of experimental data which shows that people produce a story for themselves based on their own beliefs and expectations. People come out with a Hollywood version of historical events, such as life in Roman Britain or medieval Europe.'

Even so, the evidence for reincarnation remains tantalising. Dr Stevenson's team at the University of Virginia documented possible cases of reincarnation involving children over a 40-year period.

They focused on children because they thought their stories were less likely to have been contaminated with false memories.

Most of the team's evidence was gathered in the Middle East and Asia, where a belief in reincarnation is generally accepted.

One case was of a Lebanese girl who could accurately recall the names of 25 people from a previous life. She also knew the precise relationship between the individuals.

Intriguingly, researchers believe children can have birthmarks or deformities at the site of the injury that killed them in a former life. The case of Semih Tutusmus from Turkey is typical.

Semih was born with a serious deformity in his right ear which, from the age of two, he claimed resulted from being shot by a man called Isa Dirbekil. Semih gave his name from his former life as Selim Fesli. He also gave the names of his wife and six children.

At the age of four, Semih made his way to a neighbouring village and found the house he had lived in during his past life, and introduced himself to ' his' family. When he saw Isa - the man who he claimed had shot him - he threw stones at him. A short while later, Isa confessed to the shooting (he claimed it was an accident) and was jailed for two years.

Even more astonishing is the case of Jenny Cockell, 55, who lives near Northampton. Jenny was a toddler when she began recalling a past life.

Visions of a village in Victorian Ireland repeatedly flashed into her mind. As she grew older, the details became more vivid, and by the time she was an adult, she became convinced that she'd lived in the village between 1898 and the early 1930s, that she had seven children, and had died giving birth to an eighth.

During regression therapy, she was able to draw maps of her home village. She marked shops, main roads, a station and the cottage she had lived in. After studying a map of Ireland, she felt drawn to the village of Malahide in County Dublin.

In the early 1990s, Jenny visited Malahide and followed a trail of clues that led to the discovery of her 'former identity' - Mary Sutton, a farm labourer's wife.

She learned that upon Mary's death, her eight children had been given to orphanages across Ireland. This prompted Jenny to embark on an odyssey to track 'her' lost children.

Sonny Sutton, her eldest 'son', was the first of the children traced.

'I didn't know what to think,' said Sonny, of their meeting. 'We were all Catholics, and Catholics don't believe in reincarnation. But when she got out of the car I could see my Mother in her. There was a bond between us from the beginning.'

JENNY, to dispel the inevitable doubts about her story, took the step of contacting Dr Stevenson before she approached Sonny. A BBC researcher, Gitti Coats, also interviewed Jenny and Sonny before they met each other so that any evidence would be uncontaminated.

'The two sets of memories tied together very well,' Gitti reported. 'Nearly everything tallied.'

After meeting Sonny, Jenny focused her efforts on tracking down her 'daughter', Elizabeth, whom she died giving birth to in her former life. After months of looking, she was traced to the Dublin Mountains.

Elizabeth, brought up by an aunt and uncle, was totally unaware of being adopted until Jenny told her.

She had more doubts about reincarnation than her brother, but later accepted a priest's explanation that her mother was working through Jenny to reunite the family. Elizabeth subsequently embraced Jenny as part of the family.

'I can't see her as our mother,' she said. 'But I do think my dead mother is causing her to have these dreams. Some people might say she's making these things up, but she's proved they're real. Sonny told me she knows things nobody else knows.'

So do cases such as that of Jenny Cockell and the children identified by Dr Stevenson provide proof of reincarnation? As far as some scientists are concerned, they just might - but there are several other equally odd explanations.

Some believe that Jenny and those like her may possess a psychic ability known as 'super-psi', which allows them to reach back in time to access other people's memories. In other words, they are not recalling their own former life.

Others believe there is a more disturbing possibility: that Jenny is possessed by the spirit of Mary.

Dr Peter Fenwick, a neuropsychiatrist at King's College, University of London, says: 'The phenomenon seems real but its origins are open to interpretation. We simply do not understand it yet.'

From my own experience of regression therapy, all I can say is that my 'former life' - and death - felt eerily real.

I do not claim to know for sure that I was once a monk at the time of the Crusaders. But, equally, I cannot believe the 'memories' I described in such detail were pure fabrication.

source: daily mail

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 Post subject: Re: 'I died in Jerusalem in 1276'
PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 5:35 pm 
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Thought I'd read this before - blubirds posted it in the 'other topics' section!
Mad though innit!!!

The Cliffords tower 'past life' is pretty remarkable too......
not sure I subscribe to the past life stuff as it stands...but very interesting nontheless....

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 Post subject: Re: 'I died in Jerusalem in 1276'
PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 7:47 pm 
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Yeah i posted it ages ago :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: 'I died in Jerusalem in 1276'
PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 7:49 pm 
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At least I read and remember your posts hehehe - men!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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 Post subject: Re: 'I died in Jerusalem in 1276'
PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 7:58 pm 
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Thing that gets me about that post is it seems to be based purely on what anyone could know just from watching movies etc and having an imagination.

I'd like something more specific to come out of these accounts.


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 Post subject: Re: 'I died in Jerusalem in 1276'
PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 8:02 pm 
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pollen101 wrote:
At least I read and remember your posts hehehe - men!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Yeah but thats because i post so many its gotta be me that posted the last one LOL :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: 'I died in Jerusalem in 1276'
PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 8:12 pm 
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blubird - you might have a point there hehehe!

Scipios - have you read bout the woman and the Cliffords tower past life (if thats what it was) thing?If not I'll find it and paste it on here!

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 Post subject: Re: 'I died in Jerusalem in 1276'
PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 8:31 pm 
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Yeah I think I've read that one somewhere else. There was also the one about a woman who said she was once worked in a church in York a few hundred years ago and she came up with some convincing evidence for that.

Those sorts of accounts are the most interesting, doesn't prove anything but they're definitely worth listening too.

It's this common or garden "regression under hypnosis" stuff that doesn't seem to hold any water.

That guys story above is blown to little bits for me when he says he saw the light glinting off the Crusaders' armour and that they were reinforcing it at some point.

Crusaders didn't wear armour, apart from the helmets they wore mostly chain mail. But when you think of Crusader knights you immediately conjure up the impression of knights in armour.


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 Post subject: Re: 'I died in Jerusalem in 1276'
PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 8:40 pm 
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But then wouldnt the sun glint off chain mail and make it look like armour??

Plus its abit like fishnet stockings, when you see them at a distance they look like tights its only when you get up close you see there fishnets.

So what im saying is that maybe at a distance it looked liek armour!

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 Post subject: Re: 'I died in Jerusalem in 1276'
PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 8:40 pm 
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blubird wrote:
Yeah i posted it ages ago :mrgreen: :mrgreen:


at least i have posted it with the source :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: 'I died in Jerusalem in 1276'
PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 8:45 pm 
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No from a distance it looks more like cloth than plate armour. Anyway he says they were reinforcing their armour so he must have been close.


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 Post subject: Re: 'I died in Jerusalem in 1276'
PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 9:24 pm 
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kris wrote:
blubird wrote:
Yeah i posted it ages ago :mrgreen: :mrgreen:


at least i have posted it with the source :wink:



LOL yeah you did. I nearly did but then i thought id leave sommit for you to do :mrgreen:

So hes totally got it wrong then that guy by saying they were wearing armour??
Thing is though how do we know exactly what was worn at the time. Yeah we have records but how do we know there wasnt another lot that did wear armour of sorts!

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 Post subject: Re: 'I died in Jerusalem in 1276'
PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 9:34 pm 
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Because armour in that period was mail. Some wore coats of plates but this was usually leather, sometimes small steel plates but made to measure pieces of armour were only just making an appearance at this time. Full plate armour didn't appear until much later.


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 Post subject: Re: 'I died in Jerusalem in 1276'
PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 9:35 pm 
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But in his innocence could that be what he was trying it explain.

Cos sometimes i cant find the right words to explain stuff so day the nearest thing to it.

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 Post subject: Re: 'I died in Jerusalem in 1276'
PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 9:38 pm 
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From the way it was written I don't think that's how it was intended but yes you could argue that.


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 Post subject: Re: 'I died in Jerusalem in 1276'
PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 10:54 pm 
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''Plus its abit like fishnet stockings, when you see them at a distance they look like tights its only when you get up close you see there fishnets''

ha - off topic I know I've got some old silver and black fishnets which when I wear them people think I've got chainmail leggins on...cant see it myself but people in the street have stopped me and asked me about em....where can they get chainmail leggins from?....how the **** do I know hehehe - strange!!!

can see where your both going with this and I've gotta say I agree with both points;yep...often its easy to not be able to find the right words at the time and therefore unintentionally give false information.......but also this 'information' is what people are basing the 'evidence' on...so extra care should be taken with this too.....

also how do people know for def what they wore back then....I think a top case for this mind is the 'roman ghosts of the treasurers house,York', the lost legion of whatever which the bloke saw in the cellar.....he certainly didnt describe the 'classic' roman soldiers...but archeological/historical evidence apparently points to the fact that he accurately described what a certain type of roman soldier would have been wearing...altho unknown to anyone I think at the time!!!
(sorry for the sloppy description there - feel free to put that tale into the correct terminology anyone!!!)
But to me thats a top example (altho nothing to do with past lifes so far as I'm aware hehehe)of how the exact details were very relevant 'evidence' wise.....maybe!!!!!!

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 Post subject: Re: 'I died in Jerusalem in 1276'
PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 10:58 am 
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blubird wrote:
But in his innocence could that be what he was trying it explain.

Cos sometimes i cant find the right words to explain stuff so day the nearest thing to it.


But it could also be the chink in the armour (pun intended) that makes this tale unbelievable.

Plate armour was so expensive that most armies were not equiped with it. Some Knights did have it, but not all people fighting in the crusades were knights Also Plate armour would have been so heavy it could not have been worn day after day and getting it on and off required a lot of assistance. Again its another mis-understanding that leads me to believe that this past live is not an acurate re-telling. Its historically inaccurate. Unless he was member of the knights templar, monks would not have gone to jerusalem to kill muslims either. And the knights templar were less like Monks and more like knights.....mercenaries if you wish.

It just does not add up.

One little side note, I was discussing past lives with a work colleague, she firmly believes that she was a hippy in the 60's and died in a car crash. Before that she went on to explain she firmly believes she was a penguin. I advised her to go and gte professional help.....when I had stopped laughing.

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 Post subject: Re: 'I died in Jerusalem in 1276'
PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 1:00 pm 
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hey Anth!
A pengiun!!!!
Excellent!!!!

Is that true or a wind up?????

Do you think sh'e come on here and tell us about her experiences!!!!!
I am genuinely interested into why she feels she's been a penguin...if you can have a past life at all why not be an animal.....!!!???

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 2:41 pm 
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pollen101 wrote:
hey Anth!
A pengiun!!!!
Excellent!!!!

Is that true or a wind up?????

Do you think sh'e come on here and tell us about her experiences!!!!!
I am genuinely interested into why she feels she's been a penguin...if you can have a past life at all why not be an animal.....!!!???



She claims it as true, I was laughing at her for ages, because it was just such a bizarre thing to come up with I guess. We were actually on a business trip in Belgium when that little nugget surfaced.

I doubt she would come on here, shes quite protective after all the ribbing she got from us about it.

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 Post subject: Re: 'I died in Jerusalem in 1276'
PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 6:22 pm 
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Hey whats wrong with penguins?

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 Post subject: Re: 'I died in Jerusalem in 1276'
PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 6:29 pm 
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Anth wrote:
Plate armour was so expensive that most armies were not equiped with it. Some Knights did have it, but not all people fighting in the crusades were knights Also Plate armour would have been so heavy it could not have been worn day after day and getting it on and off required a lot of assistance.


Crusader knights did not wear plate armour, a full articulated suit of armour was not inuse until the late 14th century. They wore a garment called an Aketon which was a thick padded jacket with chain mail on top.

This combination is just as heavy as wearing full plate armour although a lot easier to get on and off.


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 Post subject: Re: 'I died in Jerusalem in 1276'
PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 7:34 pm 
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Oh god hes off on one now :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

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