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 Post subject: Re: The Enigma of Borley Rectory
PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 11:11 am 
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No Mark book not arrived yet from amazon, vid wasnt conclusive, agree that the bottle could be balanced and one edge of base appeared t0 have been flattened in vid

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 Post subject: Re: The Enigma of Borley Rectory
PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 1:00 pm 
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Anth wrote:
Put enough water in a plastic bottle and it can be balanced on its edge.

Hardly supernatural.
There's a multitude of videos on youtube showing how it can be done.


It show's how it can be done, but does that mean it was faked, because someone recreated it on Youtube?

http://www.mikehallowell.com/shieldspolt/page11.html

I think you should read some of the answers to the criticism they received, although I doubt it will change your mind Anth, although, it may make you think again before you assume it was a stone cold fake... Who knows?


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 Post subject: Re: The Enigma of Borley Rectory
PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 1:12 pm 
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triplow wrote:
Anth wrote:
Put enough water in a plastic bottle and it can be balanced on its edge.

Hardly supernatural.
There's a multitude of videos on youtube showing how it can be done.


It show's how it can be done, but does that mean it was faked, because someone recreated it on Youtube?

http://www.mikehallowell.com/shieldspolt/page11.html

I think you should read some of the answers to the criticism they received, although I doubt it will change your mind Anth, although, it may make you think again before you assume it was a stone cold fake... Who knows?



So apply hard facts to the case.
What is more likely? That physics enabled someone to stand a bottle on its edge, that it doesnt require an invisble hand to hold it up.
Or
A poltergeist was holding the bottle up?

As for scratches appearing, we the video is poor quality, but if you scratch yourself it doesnt show uyp red immediatly, you can watch them develop.....try it yourself.

Theres a problem when trying to debunk something, for every way it can be shown to be done, people will come up with what I call the bullshit equation.

It starts with whatif.

Whatif right, there was this unseen demon scratching the guys back and right and it liked to balance bottles on their sides and after all it was caught on film so it must be true.

If we look at the facts, all the things seen there can be explained rationally, so unless some more evidence is available, we must take the logical stance. If we dont we look like idiots and rightly deserve the scorn applied to us.

The video looked at the evidence available on the original video and showed that the situation could be easily and simply re-created. Again I ask YOU whats the most likely explanation for the "incident"

EDIT:
I've had a look through the site link you posted. Do you not think the counter arguments are childish also?
I quote:
Quote:
But if this clip shows the wuality of the footage
Which it doesnt, as all you are seeing is a copied clip on a website


We for me if the clip is poor quality, who released the clip to the sun? If its not indicative of the real quality, why not post the real quality video?

Why are they only wanting to release the full video once they know they will get the right reception.......to me it just sounds like they are fed up because people dont beleive it. but what do they expect, there is nothing in that video that can be accurately described as paranormal. Its highlights, no one can make ANY kind of correct decision based upon selected highlights, they are designed to make you see what the editor wants you to see.

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 Post subject: Re: The Enigma of Borley Rectory
PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 1:25 pm 
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Has anyone actually visited the house then or recently?

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 Post subject: Re: The Enigma of Borley Rectory
PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 2:08 pm 
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Anth wrote:
So apply hard facts to the case.
What is more likely? That physics enabled someone to stand a bottle on its edge, that it doesnt require an invisble hand to hold it up.
Or
A poltergeist was holding the bottle up?


I fully understand what your saying Anth, what I'm asking is do you believe it was faked? If so who by? - a) the authors b) the tenants c) an outside variable, eg; a friend of the family.
I've not read the book yet so I don't know the full facts of the scenario, so I'm not willing to put my opinion on the matter.

Anth wrote:
As for scratches appearing, we the video is poor quality, but if you scratch yourself it doesnt show uyp red immediatly, you can watch them develop.....try it yourself.


I've seen similar things before. After a recent trip to Chillingham Castle, we arrived back home to find one of our team covered in hives and welts. My take on this was - he'd sat in a very old chair, covered in fabric earlier that night - the man in question probably disturbed some kind of insect infestation and had been bitten. Is this exactly what it was? I don't know - although, I was never gonna jump on it as being paranormal.

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Anth wrote:
The video looked at the evidence available on the original video and showed that the situation could be easily and simply re-created. Again I ask YOU whats the most likely explanation for the "incident


I don't know all the facts, as I mentioned earlier to make a justified assessment of the "incident", I agree it could have been faked - but by whom I'm not so sure...

The footage aside, there was other documented happenings at the house, although I will not make an evaluation of something I do not have all the facts for. At this moment I'm on the fence. I don't doubt either of the investigators at the scene and I don't know enough about the family without reading the book, therefore - I will give my opinion after I've read it.

I agree a "logical stance" is appropriate here, I was interested on your take - being skeptical as you are my friend :D

Anth wrote:
EDIT:
I've had a look through the site link you posted. Do you not think the counter arguments are childish also?


Maybe, but as some of the questions asked were perhaps insulting to the author(s) which caused them to take the same approach - who knows?


Last edited by triplow on Wed Oct 28, 2009 2:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: The Enigma of Borley Rectory
PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 2:11 pm 
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And has anyone spoken to them (the investigators) about this etc?

( never have visited the house at all ever or had any contact with anyone involved other than them at P Hall)

The presentation of the video was paranormal - never seen anything like it before or since myself!

Just because things can be replicated does not mean they are faked,however the fact that they can be faked is something that I feel would be useful to 'present' in an 'investigative report' about this case,otherwise its 'leading'.If they werent faking it/aware it could be faked then fair enough,how do they react to this 'replication',and have they continued to investigate or is it 'case closed'?

Not sure why they went with that style of presentation,it does the case no favours.

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 Post subject: Re: The Enigma of Borley Rectory
PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 3:22 pm 
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Thats just the thing.

We dont want to go upsetting people, but surely the onus of proof lies in those making the paranormal claims.
Why is this paranormal?

Why release snippets of video at poor quality (although i accept the quality was unintentional) then release a book of, I assume, facts. Then advise they wont release all the evidence until the required reception is guaranteed. It smacks of a money making scheme to me, they even say they think it would make a good movie.

I too have never read the book. But I am naturally suspicious of people. The whole thing seems......well... odd.

If I was forced to say who i thought may have faked it, the only person that could have done so is the investigators......there its said. I say this without reading the book and its taken at face value of the clips I have seen and the responses given on their own website.

I reserve the right to re-assess the situation if and when they release more "evidence".

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 Post subject: Re: The Enigma of Borley Rectory
PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 3:55 pm 
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We're forgetting about the stabbed teddy bear - surely noone living could be so evil as to stab Big Ted like that - not even to prove a point of paranromal .. It must be true!! :shock:

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 Post subject: Re: The Enigma of Borley Rectory
PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 4:53 pm 
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Think this once again leads back to the question of anonymity, only potential reasons for faking an investigation results are;
Lack of any acitivity,
Sensationalism,
Increased reputation,
Ego,
Money

Tbh many supposed invo groups and investigators have fallen into this trap to boost a flagging reputation or to start one. Premises which allow themselves to be named and used with fake results surely fall into one of these categories?

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 Post subject: Re: The Enigma of Borley Rectory
PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 7:52 pm 
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Anth wrote:
Thats just the thing.

We dont want to go upsetting people, but surely the onus of proof lies in those making the paranormal claims.
Why is this paranormal?

Why release snippets of video at poor quality (although i accept the quality was unintentional) then release a book of, I assume, facts. Then advise they wont release all the evidence until the required reception is guaranteed. It smacks of a money making scheme to me, they even say they think it would make a good movie.

I too have never read the book. But I am naturally suspicious of people. The whole thing seems......well... odd.

If I was forced to say who i thought may have faked it, the only person that could have done so is the investigators......there its said. I say this without reading the book and its taken at face value of the clips I have seen and the responses given on their own website.

I reserve the right to re-assess the situation if and when they release more "evidence".


Well in my opinion this has nothing to do with money, I believe they've had the chance to cash in, and to an extent they have - although unintentionally. My theory is the book was an afterthought - if you were a writer and you had experienced something of this magnitude (assuming it is real) then I'm sure it would inspire a book or in depth documentation, about the case.They could have also sold-out the tenants to the media, which as they stated could have made them a packet.

The fundamental aspect may be, they didn't know how to handle the aftermath of the case - remember they are paranormal investigators, after all. How would you deal with a situation IF you found SOLID proof to suggest the existence of the afterlife?

..And no Ant I'm not saying thuis is solid proof :roll: :lol:


Jay wrote:
We're forgetting about the stabbed teddy bear - surely noone living could be so evil as to stab Big Ted like that - not even to prove a point of paranromal .. It must be true!! :shock:


Another Jay Broooon classic!! :lol: :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: The Enigma of Borley Rectory
PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 12:15 am 
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''Another Jay Broooon classic!! ''

What a hoop licker!!!!!!!!

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 Post subject: Re: The Enigma of Borley Rectory
PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 12:18 am 
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has no comment about pollen comment 8)

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 Post subject: Re: The Enigma of Borley Rectory
PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 3:56 pm 
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pollen101 wrote:
''Another Jay Broooon classic!! ''

What a hoop licker!!!!!!!!


I knew that was coming PMSL :lol: :lol:























TWAT!! :P


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 Post subject: Re: The Enigma of Borley Rectory
PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 11:58 pm 
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XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

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 Post subject: Re: The Enigma of Borley Rectory
PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 12:02 am 
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Ugh not pink ones!! :x :x


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 Post subject: Re: The Enigma of Borley Rectory
PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 12:09 am 
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XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
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MANLY FUCKIN BLUE THEN......SEEING AS i'M ACTUALLY WEARING BLUE LIPSTICK TONIGHT ANYWAY!

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 Post subject: Re: The Enigma of Borley Rectory
PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 12:27 am 
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Well it wasn't much to ask was it mate... Pfffffffft!! :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: The Enigma of Borley Rectory
PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 12:33 am 
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I agree.....I fucked up my colour co-ordination well and good there!

Doesnt happen often though,so enjoy!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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 Post subject: Re: The Enigma of Borley Rectory
PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 12:42 am 
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Hmmm and hmmm

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 Post subject: Re: The Enigma of Borley Rectory
PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 1:26 am 
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you talking to your flies again...........

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 Post subject: Re: The Enigma of Borley Rectory
PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 11:09 pm 
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triplow wrote:
Anth wrote:
Thats just the thing.

We dont want to go upsetting people, but surely the onus of proof lies in those making the paranormal claims.
Why is this paranormal?

Why release snippets of video at poor quality (although i accept the quality was unintentional) then release a book of, I assume, facts. Then advise they wont release all the evidence until the required reception is guaranteed. It smacks of a money making scheme to me, they even say they think it would make a good movie.

I too have never read the book. But I am naturally suspicious of people. The whole thing seems......well... odd.

If I was forced to say who i thought may have faked it, the only person that could have done so is the investigators......there its said. I say this without reading the book and its taken at face value of the clips I have seen and the responses given on their own website.

I reserve the right to re-assess the situation if and when they release more "evidence".


Well in my opinion this has nothing to do with money, I believe they've had the chance to cash in, and to an extent they have - although unintentionally. My theory is the book was an afterthought - if you were a writer and you had experienced something of this magnitude (assuming it is real) then I'm sure it would inspire a book or in depth documentation, about the case.They could have also sold-out the tenants to the media, which as they stated could have made them a packet.

The fundamental aspect may be, they didn't know how to handle the aftermath of the case - remember they are paranormal investigators, after all. How would you deal with a situation IF you found SOLID proof to suggest the existence of the afterlife?

..And no Ant I'm not saying this is solid proof :roll: :lol:


Jay wrote:
We're forgetting about the stabbed teddy bear - surely noone living could be so evil as to stab Big Ted like that - not even to prove a point of paranromal .. It must be true!! :shock:


Another Jay Broooon classic!! :lol: :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: The Enigma of Borley Rectory
PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 12:11 am 
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Currently reading the book.....as a work of fiction, not great..bit too much of the "and everyone went out for tea.." style for me when discussing the events but actually in terms of knowledge, not too bad factually.Writers create prose, investigators report and in this volume sadly ne'er the twain shall meet. FOund Colin Wilsons book "Poltergeist" to be much more informative.

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 Post subject: Re: The Enigma of Borley Rectory
PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 10:38 am 
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Interesting posts about this while I've been away. For the record I agree with Trips.

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 Post subject: Re: The Enigma of Borley Rectory
PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 11:48 am 
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triplow wrote:
triplow wrote:
Anth wrote:
Thats just the thing.

We dont want to go upsetting people, but surely the onus of proof lies in those making the paranormal claims.
Why is this paranormal?

Why release snippets of video at poor quality (although i accept the quality was unintentional) then release a book of, I assume, facts. Then advise they wont release all the evidence until the required reception is guaranteed. It smacks of a money making scheme to me, they even say they think it would make a good movie.

I too have never read the book. But I am naturally suspicious of people. The whole thing seems......well... odd.

If I was forced to say who i thought may have faked it, the only person that could have done so is the investigators......there its said. I say this without reading the book and its taken at face value of the clips I have seen and the responses given on their own website.

I reserve the right to re-assess the situation if and when they release more "evidence".


Well in my opinion this has nothing to do with money, I believe they've had the chance to cash in, and to an extent they have - although unintentionally. My theory is the book was an afterthought - if you were a writer and you had experienced something of this magnitude (assuming it is real) then I'm sure it would inspire a book or in depth documentation, about the case.They could have also sold-out the tenants to the media, which as they stated could have made them a packet.

The fundamental aspect may be, they didn't know how to handle the aftermath of the case - remember they are paranormal investigators, after all. How would you deal with a situation IF you found SOLID proof to suggest the existence of the afterlife?

..And no Ant I'm not saying this is solid proof :roll: :lol:




How would I deal with finding solid proof?
Well I wouldnt be talking about it making a great movie, I wouldnt publish a book and then deny cashing in.

I'd probably hand over much of the research to an eminent scientist to go over my notes and clarify that the evidence is solid.

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 Post subject: Re: The Enigma of Borley Rectory
PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 12:00 pm 
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... So if you were an author, you wouldn't write a book about your astounding findings?? :)

Well call me what you want, but I'd most defiantly, produce a book!
Each to their own I guess. :mrgreen:


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