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 Post subject: Do we 'need' ghosts?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 9:56 am 
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Well, as the title says, do we 'need' ghosts?

Do the thoughts of our dead loved ones being there waiting for us when we 'pass over' give us comfort?
Is the thought of our soul continuing on after 'this life' what gets us through the shitty parts of this life?
Do we need something 'unexplainable, something we absolutely cant answer 'accurately'?
Has our culture given us an 'exotic'(if not erotic at times) picture of all things paranormal,therefore 'seducing' us into it.....?
Taking away the obvious 'people' control' tool aspects of it in the bigger picture etc, what personally do people get from 'ghosts', sceptics and believers, fencesitters and those who really dot give a shit?
Are people who have these 'special powers' ''gifted''???
etc etc etc blah blah blah
(dont want this to turn into a 'lecture', want it to be as personal and first party as poss please!)

So I'll rephrase the question........

What do 'ghosts' (and the paranormal in general) do for you???

What do you 'get' from 'ghosts'????????????

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Last edited by pollen101 on Thu Apr 29, 2010 11:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Do we 'need' ghosts?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 10:06 am 
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People "need" ghosts on a few different levels .. it may be as simple as someone not wanting an end to their existence, so they "invent" an afterlife - or someone who's lost a loved one and taking comfort from the idea they'll be with them again or they are being watched over.

But its not a "ghost" people need .. thats just a means value and each individual "needs" what that means value represents to them -

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 Post subject: Re: Do we 'need' ghosts?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 10:12 am 
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I'm not asking what 'people' need in this post Jay....what do you (any all other posters) 'need'/'get' regarding ghosts?

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 Post subject: Re: Do we 'need' ghosts?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 10:17 am 
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To me its fulfilling my curiousity and I take enjoyment from the journey. I couldn't care less if a ghost exists or not - but if the possibility does exist then I'd like to be involved in looking for one.

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 Post subject: Re: Do we 'need' ghosts?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 10:30 am 
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so are you saying that its the 'search' you get things from, that you get more from not knowing and the possibilities than you feel you would from any 'answers'?

Hmm....interesting choice of words,you want to be involved in looking for one,that seems to reinforce what your saying.......you get more from 'looking' than 'finding'????

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 Post subject: Re: Do we 'need' ghosts?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 10:36 am 
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No I didn't say that .. What I said is that I couldn't care less if ghosts exist or don't exist. If an answer were to be found, I'd be interested big time in that answer - but as it stands, I couldn't give a flying fuck what that answer would be .. I don't have anything invested in the outcome .. but because I have a curiousity in life, the universe and everything .. I'd rather be involved looking to find that answer to the ghost question, than not involved ..

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 Post subject: Re: Do we 'need' ghosts?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 10:44 am 
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ah right...........

clear as.......mud!

But you will have some investment Jay.......

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 Post subject: Re: Do we 'need' ghosts?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 10:47 am 
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Yeah, my curiosity in the question .. thats it.

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 Post subject: Re: Do we 'need' ghosts?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 11:00 am 
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hehehehehehehehehe!
So what do 'ghosts' do to stimulate that curiosity,what do you 'get' from ghosts (or the journey looking for them,you say your interested in 'everything'....why not mechanics,cooking,shit shovelling,gardening' etc etc etc......why 'ghosts',why not astronomy,athletics,etvc etc etc......?

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 Post subject: Re: Do we 'need' ghosts?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 11:11 am 
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Who's saying I don't have an interest in cooking or mechanics or astronomy? But this isn't a cooking forum and you're topic title wasn't "Do we 'need' Jam Rolypoly?"

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 Post subject: Re: Do we 'need' ghosts?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 11:39 am 
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I'm not saying you dont have an interest in any of those topics Jay,but I do know from talking to you that you dont have a big interest in most of them..............certainly not enough to motivate you to devote lots of time and effort to them like you have with the 'ghost hunting'............(apart from the cookbooks, but that was more means to end rather than interest in product as I understand???)

I know you have a big interest in football (but sensibly not enough to waste good money on hehe like me!),so I could also put it to you 'why football.....what do you get from football'' etc........

But as you've pointed out, its a ghost forum.....hence the question regarding 'ghosts', and not football, or jam rolypoly (which I've just found out - dont ya love google! - is related to spotted dick in a suety,pasty way apparently!)

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 Post subject: Re: Do we 'need' ghosts?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 1:32 pm 
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pollen101 wrote:
I'm not saying you dont have an interest in any of those topics Jay,but I do know from talking to you that you dont have a big interest in most of them..............certainly not enough to motivate you to devote lots of time and effort to them like you have with the 'ghost hunting'............(apart from the cookbooks, but that was more means to end rather than interest in product as I understand???)


Not quite .. nearly, but not quite .. You and I have a common interest .. "ghost hunting" .. so when together we'll spend a lot of time discussing it or discussing how to do it.

But "ghosty hunting" isn't my number 1 passion or interest in life .. its probably not even in the top 10. But because we do share it as a common interest, it may mean we don't talk about other things that I do have more of an interest in as much because you won't have an interest in it other than from a : "I'll show an interest cos you're interested in it" point of view. I do a lot of things away from NGI and ghost hunting that I barely speak of to people .. I might mention it here and there .. but because the interest probably isn't shared, I'm not going to whitter on about it.

Its like you with your bands - theres no point you talking to me about XYZ Punk Band which you may be more interested in than your own "ghost hunting" .. I'll show an interest because its something you're into, but its not my thing so you don't bore me with it and if you do mention it, you won't go at it with as much Kapow as what you would if you were speaking to someone who does have the same level of interest. You've mentioned before about going to "gigs" so its something you actively do and enjoy - but you don't tell me every one you go to, give me a review of the band and all the bells and whistles that go with it - so I don't know if your more into doing that than "ghost hunting".

But I'll talk with another mate about football and spare him the Ghost Hunting. I'll talk about astronomy (which I do have an interest in) with another mate. I'll talk about pussy with another etc etc etc .. So don't be fooled by my involvement in the "ghost hunting" world thinking I have some massively major reason or need beyond just being curious .. I don't .. It might come across to you that I do but thats purely because we share the interest and therefore talk about it a lot more than what we would your Punk stuff or my other things.

I mentioned up above about "means values". An interest in "ghosts" to me is just a means value .. a "means" to an end .. and that end is it allows me to explore my own curiosity about life, the universe and everything in it. But it could be UFOs, Religion, Psychology, Physics etc - hey, all things that I have an interest in and could be argued have a place in "ghost hunting" on some level and all of them "means" to pique my curiosity about life, the universe and everything in it.

Thats my only reason. As I've mentioned already - I have no investment in the outcome .. If its "ghosts" in the traditional sense .. wahey .. if it isn't .. wahey .. Frankly, I'm not fucked .. but if along the way my curiosity is piqued enough, then great ..

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 Post subject: Re: Do we 'need' ghosts?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 1:43 pm 
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''Not quite .. nearly, but not quite .. You and I have a common interest .. "ghost hunting" .. so when together we'll spend a lot of time discussing it or discussing how to do it.

But "ghosty hunting" isn't my number 1 passion or interest in life .. its probably not even in the top 10. But because we do share it as a common interest, it may mean we don't talk about other things that I do have more of an interest in as much because you won't have an interest in it other than from a : "I'll show an interest cos you're interested in it" point of view. I do a lot of things away from NGI and ghost hunting that I barely speak of to people .. I might mention it here and there .. but because the interest probably isn't shared, I'm not going to whitter on about it.''


Jay,I think we're all aware we all have other interests which we talk about as and when to whatever 'nth degree hehehe ( I am anyway,keeping to the 'personal 1st party theme!),but as you yourself have pointed out, (and I know), you've put a lot of time and effort into the ghosthunting as oppose to other things (and at the expense of at times) over the last few years (only going off what you've told me regarding this!), not saying at all its your only interest or the only thing that you've an interest in hehehehe,just wondering (sparked by your answers to the post)what your motivation is regarding the 'ghost' side of it,as the 'ghost' bit is obviously something which motivated you to put the time and effort into more than the 'alien/flower arranging/astronomy/mechanic/ etc side of it for a few years!

(wont comment on the 'pussy' side of things tho - I'm eating hehehehehe!)

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 Post subject: Re: Do we 'need' ghosts?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 1:50 pm 
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''I mentioned up above about "means values". An interest in "ghosts" to me is just a means value .. a "means" to an end .. and that end is it allows me to explore my own curiosity about life, the universe and everything in it. But it could be UFOs, Religion, Psychology, Physics etc - hey, all things that I have an interest in and could be argued have a place in "ghost hunting" on some level and all of them "means" to pique my curiosity about life, the universe and everything in it.

Thats my only reason. As I've mentioned already - I have no investment in the outcome .. If its "ghosts" in the traditional sense .. wahey .. if it isn't .. wahey .. Frankly, I'm not fucked .. but if along the way my curiosity is piqued enough, then great''

Your 'curiosity' makes sense I'd say thats what most of us are doing here to different degrees......but what motivates that curiosity,and why 'ghosts' among one of your many interests especially,enough to make you stop and settle for a while (and it could be said put down roots by doing NGI sort of)?

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 Post subject: Re: Do we 'need' ghosts?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 2:05 pm 
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** missed your previous post but looks like I answered it anyway **

Eating pussy? :wink:

Ahh .. now you're getting away from the original question tho . Yes, I've spent a lot of time in respect of NGI .. I'm out of pocket because of NGI both directly and indirectly .. NGI has gotten in the way of other things I have an interest in and want to do ..

But .. NGI could stand for National Gastronomical Institute or Northern Gallapolos Islands .. Just because it has "ghost" in the name don't think I've done it because of the "ghosts"

If something is worth doing its worth putting the time and the effort in to do it. I used to kick a football against a wall for 6 hours a day, by myself, and it used to bore the hell out of me - but I knew that if I wanted to be a good footballer I had to put the work in for it.

So if me putting the effort into NGI allows me to better explore my curiousity, gives me more opportunity to travel through the doors that that work and effort opens - then I'll do it and I'll put the work and effort in to make it happen - to a point. I do need to find time for other things .. yes its got in the way of other things I've wanted to do which I'm not happy with - some of them you know only too well - others you don't.

So it could be ghost group, a knitting group, a football team, an astronomical society or a Vagrants Weekly Get-Together .. If I'm involved in it then I'll do what I can do to help make it as good as it can be and thats whether my interest in the subject matter is high or low.

And stop trying to attribute motivation to things at levels that don't exist. If you don't get the answer you're looking for - just accept the answer you're looking for doesn't exist. There isn't a reason beyond whats been given - it there was, I'd give it. I'm just curious about life, the universe and everything in it .. "Why?" .. because I am, I'm just a curious person.

I got involved in "ghosts" and NGI because it was a vehicle to help me explore my enviroment with that curiosity. Before that - ghosts hadn't crossed my mind any more than the majority of others out there. Others in NGI over the years had had a life long interest in ghosts and the paranormal - I didn't. It was a "oohh .. that might be a curious thing to get involved in" moment .. nothing more.

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 Post subject: Re: Do we 'need' ghosts?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 2:56 pm 
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Well I do think that many people do 'need' ghosts, as ghosts appear in all cultures all over the world. If not 'ghosts' then something to put their faith in such as Gods/Goddesses (or Science).

Even people who scoff at the notion of an afterlife aren't usually quite a sure when you really get talking to them.

Personally I need to believe in the possibility of things such as ghosts if not just set me apart from the likes of Randi and Dawkins.

What do I get out of ghosts personally? Hmmmm; well I hate unanswered questions and I find the whole subject fascinating as 'something' is certainly going on. I know my search is probably not going to provide me with the answers I seek and will probably throw up even more questions in the process, but it's a fun journey to be on. Certainly beats football!

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 Post subject: Re: Do we 'need' ghosts?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 3:11 pm 
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''Eating pussy?''

hehehe,no,was eating me lindt bunny late easter pressie but thoughts of you 'doing' pussy with your mate was putting me off hehehe!!!
And to put me off chocolate is a pretty damn near impossible thing to do I'll have you know!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Not getting off the original question, still asking what ghosts do for you!

Think most people in NGI could say they were out of pocket cos of it for one reason and another (my phone bill is 1 good example lately!),again,directly and indirectly (most of us have put time in which we could have probably spent better doing other things!), and probably for the same reasons (although 'making something as good as it can be could be a contrversial subjective issue xxxxxxxxxxx)say that about doing things to the best of our abilities etc (maybe 'putting in whats required as and when is a more diplomatic way to say that????)

''So it could be ghost group, a knitting group, a football team, an astronomical society or a Vagrants Weekly Get-Together .. If I'm involved in it then I'll do what I can do to help make it as good as it can be and thats whether my interest in the subject matter is high or low.''

Exactly!So why 'ghost'.....why settle on that,not knitting/astro/tramps etc etc etc,thats what I'm asking.....gotta be more to keep fueling it it than just random pot luck/curiosity moment.
I get the curiosity thing totally, I get the how you can enjoy the process as part of the grander scheme of things,the thread was about what ghosts do for us as individuals,so when you said you couldnt give a fuck about ghosts especially either way, I wondered what your motivation was for doing a ghost group, no more no less,keep ya undies on!!!!

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 Post subject: Re: Do we 'need' ghosts?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 3:22 pm 
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''Well I do think that many people do 'need' ghosts, as ghosts appear in all cultures all over the world. If not 'ghosts' then something to put their faith in such as Gods/Goddesses (or Science).

Even people who scoff at the notion of an afterlife aren't usually quite a sure when you really get talking to them.''

Agreed Mark, it certainly does seem to be that way!!!

''Personally I need to believe in the possibility of things such as ghosts if not just set me apart from the likes of Randi and Dawkins.''

Hehehehehehe,cant see you being mistaken for either of them Mark hehe!

''What do I get out of ghosts personally? Hmmmm; well I hate unanswered questions and I find the whole subject fascinating as 'something' is certainly going on. I know my search is probably not going to provide me with the answers I seek and will probably throw up even more questions in the process, but it's a fun journey to be on.''

That makes sense,sounds similar to what Jays trying to say (I think!!!)

Do you think that how ghosts and the paranormal have been presented to you throughout your life (books/films/stories told etc) has given you an interest in it also, made it seem exciting/different/scary but in a good way etc?What do you think the effect of our cultural representations of the 'paranormal' on us as a measure as to why some people will naturally be more interested than others is,do you think that has much to do with it, or its effect is overplayed etc (only asking cos I know you have an interest in that side of it!)


'' Certainly beats football!''

Oi!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Certainly beats geordy football....................

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 Post subject: Re: Do we 'need' ghosts?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 3:39 pm 
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Since a child I've always been interested in ghosts. I put this down to my mother being a bit of a horror fan, so my childhood was filled with Hammer Films and horror stories. She even used to read me horror novels at bedtime when I was small. Fear soon became a bit of an adrenaline rush for me, which has developed into more interest and excitement over the years.

Culturally I think that the British have enjoyed a long and healthy relationship with the idea of ghosts and hauntings. Most people enjoy a good ghost story but still feel safe in the knowledge that they can come to no harm. Different cultures regard things such as ghosts and spirits as a different matter, especially in the Far East where ghosts are commonly something to be feared. I'm sure that Coldmoon said that that was the reason why there were not many Paranormal Investigation groups in his part of the wold, and why alleged haunted places would play down their spooks.

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 Post subject: Re: Do we 'need' ghosts?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 4:03 pm 
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Ha, top points to ya mother there Mark,cant beat Hammer films!!!!!!!They in the same class as the Carry on films - a British Constitutional!!!!!!!!!Does your mother like those too???

Yeah, I think Britain does have a good relationship with its 'ghosts' and 'haunted places' (why else would the Yanks come hehe!),and who doesnt love a good ghost story/safe scare????(We have the better ghosts, the Yanks have the better rollercoasters - so I'm told, not been over to try them out for myself yet!!)

I think the media/our culture does have an influence over how people 'interpret' exepriences they have,In especially films like the Exorcist etc ,also the similarities between alien/religious /paranormal experiences (same as little people and other popular 'things' like that of the time etc) are obvious.............

Yeah, I think I remember Coldmoon saying something about that,I especially do the bit about how venues would play down or deny thier spooks!

But that included and aside,the 'experiences' do seem to be similar (in respective areas etc) regardless of culture/media intervention etc............just the interpretations which seem to change!

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 Post subject: Re: Do we 'need' ghosts?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 4:06 pm 
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Yes my life was full of (and still is) Hammer and Carry On.

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 Post subject: Re: Do we 'need' ghosts?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 4:16 pm 
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absolute class!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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